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http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/
Does any one have information on the eagle on th back of this helmet?
What did they use to blacken the eagle, in comparison to the tinned design on the rest of the helmet?
Was it silver that has blackened, or neilo?
I am asking because I have heard that it is tinned and not a silvered helmet.
Any information would be appreciated.
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Byron.
I am not so familiar with this Helmet but judging from other areas on it's surface I would say it may well be Nielo, as far as it being tinned I don't know infact off hand I don't think it's in the Robinson.
It does look like the Robison A however where we say "A" I think this might be the Cavalry A not a sports type, infact it's shape is similar to the Newstead one.
What a shame the forward area has had to be renovated makes one try hard to imagine just what was there.??
Brian Stobbs
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I would agree on the similarity to the Newstead.
It certain has holes in all the right places to attach some sort of decorative plates etc.
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That is of course very true however one has to try and think Roman to be able to put any decoration onto it, believe me over so many years now I have tried to do this with many things at times it works but then other times one becomes defeated.
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Niello is applied as a powder and melted in place- but that eagle is raised, no? That kind of preclude niello then, right?
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I don't know. Could it not melt onto a raised piece too? That is my reason for the question. :?
I had heard the rest of the helmet was tinned not silvered, which is why I questioned if the blackened parts were silver that had blackened.
It would be interesting to see a more detailed report on this, as all I have so far is the info in the helmet database.
I don't know enough about the behaviour of neilo when it is being applied to decide if it would run all over the place,
or if it would just be a local gooy mass that stayed fairly stable when it was melted.
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It is quite easy to cover surfaces with niello. Simlply spread the paste over the area and heat it. It will flow and hold as a very thin layer. However, methinks that that is just the bronze or brass, what looks black here. I could get up, an walk to the next room and look at the publication, though.... Hold on...
All right: The helmet is from iron and covered with bronze or brass sheet metal, this being partially tinned, and partially patinized intentionally, resulting in a silver-and-black surface.
Christian K.
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Quote:It is quite easy to cover surfaces with niello. Simlply spread the paste over the area and heat it. It will flow and hold as a very thin layer. However, methinks that that is just the bronze or brass, what looks black here. I could get up, an walk to the next room and look at the publication, though.... Hold on...
All right: The helmet is from iron and covered with bronze or brass sheet metal, this being partially tinned, and partially patinized intentionally, resulting in a silver-and-black surface.
Ahh, thanks, very interesting. You have a publication tooo!
How can I get a copy?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
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Buy this book:
[url:3usma05l]http://www.antikmakler.de/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/717[/url] 
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
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LOL thanks a bunch. It appears to be sold out. :roll:
Does it have dimensions etc in the section on the helmet?
I've added it to my wish list anyway. 
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If you are at Training in February Byron I'll bring the Christies catalogue.
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Cheers Ade. Its wasn't part of the guttman collection was it?
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Cool Christian- that makes rather more sense; since the surface is convex, I wondered about the niello flowing off while being melted and then there's the issue of the detail- since niellow fills spaces, that'd be obscured somewhat more I'd have expected. Patinization is far simpler and makes more sense (even if it weren't true )
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Quote:Cheers Ade. Its wasn't part of the guttman collection was it?
You didn't read the description in the helmet database???.... :o
Formerly in the Axel Guttman collection, Berlin. Inv. AG 461. Sold at auction 2003/5. Present whereabouts unknown.
Quote:Does it have dimensions etc in the section on the helmet?
Also in the database (the same link you posted!! :lol: )
H: 175mm; B: 202mm; Th. 1-1.5mm; W (neck guard): 31-39mm; H (cheek guards): 166mm.
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Yes I saw the dimensions, but there is more detail that I was hoping for.
I missed that bit in the description about the Guttman collection in the HDB, but asked because I do have the Christies catalog at home.
As I spend half my life away from home, I tend to lose track of things, especially when I can only snatch a few minutes here and there while at work the other half of my life, I tend to scan for what I am looking for and ignore what I'm not. (as hard to believe as that may be.) :roll:
So we know how the blackening was done and that it is not silvered, but tinned?
How do you turn the bronze black, instead of green?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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