Where did they keep the mules in garrison?

[PhilusEstilius]

John

That looks more like the blade portion of an entrenching tool with it's point missing, it cannot be a shovel as the hole at the top is at 90 degrees to what it should be for any shovel.

[M. Demetrius]

That's what I was thinking too, Brian, but they used them in digging, just like a modern mattock (or as we call them in Texas, a "grubbing hoe". I've seen pictures of an artifact of this sort that had a pick point on the one end, and the hoe part on the other.

[D B Campbell]

I'm not sure we have any shovels from the Roman period.

I must be mistranslating Schaufelhacke. :oops: Apologies.

Here's a Schaufelhacke from Harzhorn.

And another from Hedemünden.

I assumed they were "shovels" (broadly speaking). So what exactly are they for?!

[jvrjenivs]

I'm not sure we have any shovels from the Roman period. There are certainly spade sheaths in a similar sort of abundance to dolabrae but all archaeologists will tell you the profound difference between shovels and spades (incidentally I never dig with a shovel as I can throw further with a spade).

I'm not that good at those terminology. So, I don't know if this example is either a spade or a shovel (or something else), but I supposted it was interesting to post the thing. Original is from the Kops Plateau, Nijmegen. Middle first cenury AD, unpublished. (I'm talking about the tool left bottom; all others are from the same site however)



I have the drawing of the original somewhere, should it be interested to anyone.

[PhilusEstilius]

Jurjen.
The one at bottom left looks everything more of a shovel than a spade with that sort of curve in the tube where it fits the wood shank a very interesting find indeed.

[M. Demetrius]

If it helps any, what I was told is that a shovel is for scooping out loose material, a spade is for cutting the material out of the hole, or starting a hole, and a mattock (which is a heavy version of a hoe) is for general digging breaking up dirt/clay. An entrenching tool is for digging a trench, but can work as either a spade or shovel. I suppose those definitions are different in different place.

And then there are turf cutters which are used to cut a section of turf out so it can be laid on top of the dirt that's being dug.

I guess everybody knew that, but just in case-- :wink:

[D B Campbell]

I guess everybody knew that, but just in case-- :wink:

But what's a Schaufelhacke?! Is that what our German friends call an "entrenching tool"? (I thought it just meant "shovel".)

[mcbishop]

I guess everybody knew that, but just in case-- :wink:

But what's a Schaufelhacke?! Is that what our German friends call an "entrenching tool"? (I thought it just meant "shovel".)

It is indeed what we'd (English or German) tend to call an entrenching tool. Corbridge Museum has a 1914-18 WD issue example (complete with arrow mark) for comparison with a genuine Roman one from the site and they are virtually indistinguishable.

Mike Bishop

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... =679432131

Here is an entrenching tool from Athens, of Roman provenance I believe.

[D B Campbell]

That's a fine specimen, Byron. Looks almost new!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Must be that great weather in the medeteranean!
Yes it is in excellent condition.

[jkaler48]

I'm not sure we have any shovels from the Roman period. There are certainly spade sheaths in a similar sort of abundance to dolabrae but all archaeologists will tell you the profound difference between shovels and spades (incidentally I never dig with a shovel as I can throw further with a spade).

I'm not that good at those terminology. So, I don't know if this example is either a spade or a shovel (or something else), but I supposted it was interesting to post the thing. Original is from the Kops Plateau, Nijmegen. Middle first cenury AD, unpublished. (I'm talking about the tool left bottom; all others are from the same site however)



I have the drawing of the original somewhere, should it be interested to anyone.

I saw some of the ones in the lower left photo in use on National Geographic last night in the mountains of Columbia. They also had small pack mules. Probably both descended from
the Legions and brought over by the Spanish in the 1500's

[M. Demetrius]

The two on the top, are the "blades" riveted on, or forged from one piece?

[jvrjenivs]

The two on the top, are the "blades" riveted on, or forged from one piece?

In reallity we had to make these in a hurry, so unfortunately these are brazed on. Orignals were forged from one piece.

[Sardaukar]

Question, is there any consensus about how many animals single legion had?

I have read something about one mule per tent octet and wagon per century. So that is already quite a few hundreds..and obviously artillery etc. would need even more wagons.