Carthaginian soldiers in the II Punic war: questions

[Caturix]

I'm making a rsearch about Carthaginian warriors of Hannibal's army.

I'm not interested in the armament of Celts, Numidian or Iberian mercenaries, but actuallt I wonder what should have been the aspect of the Lybian troops.

Probably they used an attic style helmets, and for the sword probably a Kopis or a Xyphos are both a good choice, but what about the armor?

Should be more correct Linothorax or an Hamata?

But my bigger question is about the shield: It's more probable they used celtic-like thureos, or a greek hoplite aspis, or a spanish caetra?

Thank you for your time

[Jona Lendering]

I think that one of the problems you must solve first, is the moment you're thinking about. After the battle of the Trebia, the Carthaginians possessed many Roman weapons and armors. They were dressed like Romans, therefore, and this is certainly the case after Lake Trasimene. The army at Cannae was already fully equiped like legionaries.

[Caturix]

I think that one of the problems you must solve first, is the moment you're thinking about. After the battle of the Trebia, the Carthaginians possessed many Roman weapons and armors. They were dressed like Romans, therefore, and this is certainly the case after Lake Trasimene. The army at Cannae was already fully equiped like legionaries.

Thank you for you answer.

I've heard this many times, and actually I find it highly probable, but I'd like to ask if there is any hystorical source that attests it.

And also: before taking the weapons of the romans, do we konw what kind of equipment did they use?

Thank you for you time.

[Epictetus]

We have the following from Livy, but personally I don't know anything about their arms beforehand. I'm sure someone here does, though.

One would suppose the Africans were for the most part Romans, they were so equipped with arms captured at the Trebia, and for the greater part at the Trasimenus. The shields of the Gauls and Spaniards were of the same shape; their swords unequal and dissimilar. The Gauls had very long ones, without points. The Spaniards, who were accustomed to stab more than to cut their enemy, had swords convenient from their shortness, and with points. The aspect of these nations in other respects was terrific, both as to the appearance they exhibited and the size of their persons. The Gauls were naked above the navel: the Spaniards stood arrayed in linen vests resplendent with surprising whiteness, and bordered with purple.

Livy, 22.46

[Dutchhoplite]

Hmmm, i could imagine they would have kept some of their native gear, like helmets of shields, to avoid being confused with Romans.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hmmm, i could imagine they would have kept some of their native gear, like helmets of shields, to avoid being confused with Romans.

That's what shield designs were for. Equipment was never 'uniform' and could not have been used as a means of identification. In ancient armies, ethnic groups with similar equipment (Greeks, Celts) could fight on both sides, and would therefore have had to rely on different means of identification in battle.

[Dain II.]

Hi Gioal,

seems you fell in love with the Carthaginians since last summer, I remember the smurfcap :lol: :mrgreen: . Maybe I'll see you as an Cartaginian this year at Frögg, eh? P
I remember Herodotus mentioned linnen stepped armours for the phoinicians if I am right, and I found this weekend some phoinician terracottafigures from Cyprus in the Johanneum Collection in Graz (A) which looked like in lines stepped T-Y-cuirases (not rhomboid) with fasteninghooks at the breast. If you wish I'll send you photos of it. But unfortunelly this is all 5th BC stuff.

And, methinks, at the italiancampaign of Hannibal they used Aspides, Thureoi and Scuta as well.


lg Stephan

[Caturix]

Dear Stephan!

Actually, with some friends of mine of the X Legio (Roman Republicans) we have started a project to reproduct the battle of the Trasimene (Battle of Malpasso).

We have obtained the support of academics from the university of Bologna, and a good cover from the council of Tuoro sul Trasimeno, the itaian city nearest to the place of the battle.

In fact, this event will take place on the Malpasso itself, and the in the same date of the historical battle.

It have been asked to me to supervise the "cathaginian army", and it's my goal not to represent an "all gallic" hannibal army, as they normally do in italian reenacting events (SIC!), but something more historycal accurate.

In the net I find this reconstruction drawing... do you think would be a good starting point?



BTW, I can't wait for Keltenwelt ;-) ) ... but there surely I'll be with my celtic outfit ;-) )

Hi Gioal,

seems you fell in love with the Carthaginians since last summer, I remember the smurfcap :lol: :mrgreen: . Maybe I'll see you as an Cartaginian this year at Frögg, eh? P
I remember Herodotus mentioned linnen stepped armours for the phoinicians if I am right, and I found this weekend some phoinician terracottafigures from Cyprus in the Johanneum Collection in Graz (A) which looked like in lines stepped T-Y-cuirases (not rhomboid) with fasteninghooks at the breast. If you wish I'll send you photos of it. But unfortunelly this is all 5th BC stuff.

And, methinks, at the italiancampaign of Hannibal they used Aspides, Thureoi and Scuta as well.


lg Stephan

[Dain II.]

Hi Gioal,

sounds like a lot of fun, and reachable for me. :mrgreen: If you need fabrics for the project, write me what you need and I'll look what I can get. :wink:

The picture as far as I can tell is well made, only the sleeves, if sleeves then long,thight ones, if not than without sleeves only Tunics in rectangular cutting which reaches over the shoulder or the upper arm so it seems there is a short sleeve (in german Scheinärmel), methinks. I like the Shumatepictures principally, but sometimes he draws awfull clothings, ofthen way to baggy (for example Celts and Germanians) and to broad hems.
Also have a look at the Ancient Warfare Magazines there ar also good pictures made by Igor Dzis and Giorgio Albertini. Their recreations seems plausible to me. Only I dont know why nearly all carthaginians ar depicted with an attic helmet with visor. I'm sure theyve used some other common types too, even if they ar not depicted in carthaginian context.

But at all, I'm a starter of Carthage-research. :mrgreen:

lg Stephan