What about those skirts?

[lyuv]

Ye ye, call them what you like, but skirts they are. I allways see (reenactments, pictures, movies ect.) the roman soldiers wearing these skirts, sandals and short sleeved shirts/armors.

Fashion and manhood aside, how could they dress like that, when half the year it's realy cold? Even in the souther regens of the empire, like judea and egypt, it gets aroung freezing in winter and at nights. Not to mention the bitter cold and snow of the european regens. These areas require heavy shoes/boots and warm thick coats. How come we ("I"?) don't see these?

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Yuv

I allways see (reenactments, pictures, movies ect.) the roman soldiers wearing these skirts, sandals and short sleeved shirts

Most public re-enactments take place during the summer months and in daylight as indeed did ancient campaigns. However some hardy re-enactors do venture out into the cold as can be seen in the Roman Impression thread. For Movie versions see both 'The Fall of the Roman Empire' and 'Gladiator' both set in Northern wars were soldiers wear cloaks and extra long sleeved tunics.

If you are interested in all types of Roman military dress, including winter wear then you might find my own book ROMAN MILITARY DRESS of some use.

Graham

[jvrjenivs]

I allways see (reenactments, pictures, movies ect.) the roman soldiers wearing these skirts, sandals and short sleeved shirts/armors.

Because it seems that was what Roman military dress was about. They could wear trousers, and certainly adopted them when they were in cold region/season, but that's not what the Romans thought was proper dress. They are for barbarians, not for Romans. Also, in the later empire we see more and more shifting to long sleeves, trousers, etc. Certainly adapted as the soldiers on frontier had to live in cold winters and nights.

[Rumo]

Because it seems that was what Roman military dress was about. They could wear trousers, and certainly adopted them when they were in cold region/season, but that's not what the Romans thought was proper dress. They are for barbarians, not for Romans.

This echoes Ovid's pro patrio cultu Persica braca tegit.

[john m roberts]

The Scots had no problem wearing skirts in a cold climate.
The fact is, people don't always dress for the weather, something that seems fundamentally sensible to us, but we don't have the rigid dress codes of former eras. On the other extreme, look at those Victorians living in the tropics, wearing layer upon layer of wool, petticoats, corsets, gloves, shawls and so forth. that was how civilized, Christian people dressed. You might be in Siam, but you dressed like it was fall in London or Boston.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Actually, as someone once pointed out quite clearly, we do Romans do not wear skirts!
They're dresses, dammit, dresses!!!!

[garrelt]

What ever you want to call it , this sort of clothing is warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer than a lot of modern "plastic" so called technical clothing.
Also 1 size fits most. :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

What ever you want to call it , this sort of clothing is warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer than a lot of modern "plastic" so called technical clothing.
Also 1 size fits most. :wink:

Hey, I totally agree with you lol
I've been sleeping in my paenula for almost 2 years or more.
And hate changing back to modern clothes after an event. No matter how high tech the fabric, you end up with
it stuck to you on hot or cold days, if you work up a sweat. :x

[garrelt]

Also it is easier to clean.
You don't have to buy a certain brand of washing powder to get it clean.
Just a bucket of water some salt and some wood ash from the fire is enough to get it clean.
It even lasts longer, no velcro or zippers getting broken.

Back to skirts.
I'm thinking here about a picture, which could be, depicting a Lictores holding Fasces in a procession.
I think it is part of a frieze.
Can't find the picture so fast.
His torso looks bare and he is wearing a kind of skirt, worn in the same way as you can wear a bath towel.

[Crispvs]

Many people have a fixed view of what the Roman soldier wore and do not think about the effect of weather and temperature on people's modes of dress. This attitude extends to many re-enactment groups as well. However, the saying 'that any fool can be cold' was as true then as it is now. Roman soldiers would have been fairly tough individuals and would have been able to weather bad conditions better than most people nowadays, but they would also have been aware that if you want to stay in a healthy condition you have to dress against cold. This is why they had and wore cloaks. Hollywood would have you believe that a cloak is a fashion item, but the reality is that it is a garment which will help to insulate you from the cold. It was also normal Roman practice to wear more than one tunic when it was cold. In addition to these things they could also wear socks and they seem also to have understood that the coldest level of air is the air in the few inches immediately above the ground and apparently knew to insulate their lower legs with leg bindings or leg wraps.

I say more about this in this article, which owes a lot to Graham's work and which is referring to the first century AD, not later periods:

http://www.romanarmy.net/coldweather.htm

For myself, when the weather is cold, I have no qualms about wearing more than one tunic, including a check long sleeved tunic of Germanic type (assumed to be a locally bought item), socks and lower leg coverings, or any combination of these things. I also encourage other re-enactors to do this.

Crispvs

[Graham Sumner]

Paul Crispus wrote:

It was also normal Roman practice to wear more than one tunic when it was cold. In addition to these things they could also wear socks and they seem also to have understood that the coldest level of air is the air in the few inches immediately above the ground and apparently knew to insulate their lower legs with leg bindings or leg wraps.

I could not agree more. I know Bishop and Coulston don't like them and some re-enactors who loathe them because they are not part of the traditional Trajan's column Roman uniform look but there is plenty of written evidence for the wearing of leg bindings by the military in the early Imperial period. Hunters both on foot and horse also wear them in countless mosaics and paintings as a matter of course so it makes sense that soldiers on active duty would wear them too. I guess it is a bit like those soldiers at Rorkes Drift who wrapped rags around their Martini-Henry rifles to prevent burns because they overheated. You won't find that in official photographs but we know they did it.

At Kirby Hall a few years back near the very end of the week end after standing around for ages during the final parade I had to suddenly turn and run uphill. My right calf muscle was torn from behind the knee to the ankle and has never fully recovered. If that had happened on the battlefield I would have been a dead man and if something like that could have been prevented by wearing a few strips of material around the lower leg then I am convinced that Roman soldiers would have done so.

Graham.

[garrelt]

Because we train in a Museum which is open for public all year long, we can and have to experiment a lot with clothing.
Our training is always outdoors.
Last Sunday's training ,28-02-2010, no modern items were worn by me.
Yes we even test authentic underwear.
Conditions were rain and storm.

Even in the souther regens of the empire, like judea and egypt, it gets aroung freezing in winter and at nights. Not to mention the bitter cold and snow of the european regens. These areas require heavy shoes/boots and warm thick coats. How come we ("I"?) don't see these?

Most events for public are held in the summer.
In summer you also see me wearing a lose fitting tunic with breeches, but in winter i can be wearing:
2 linen under tunics, 1 woolen overtunic (longsleeved), a linen scarf, a woolen or felt hat, linen underpants, woolen pants, needle bound socks, woolen lower leg coverings and closed shoes.
If it gets extra cold I also put on my padded body armour.

[Graham Sumner]

Garrelt

Just this minute I have been corresponding with Arian Ziliox about you and your padded body armour! He sent me some photos of his group which must have included you in one of them. So as a result I was asking him what the evidence was for padded armour in a non Roman context! He said the person wearing the padded armour was actually a friend from the Netherlands so I finally guessed it must have been you! :oops:



Graham.

[garrelt]

Found the picture where I was looking for and refering to.

Roman Military Clothing (1)
By Graham Sumner
Page 42
"Detail of a relief in Rome showing a sacrificial scene from the time of Marcus Aurelius. The attendant is dressed exactly as similar military attendants are shown as on Trajan's Column."

Sorry have no scanner present.

Graham pm send

[Cunicula]

So all you big tough blokes are finding skirts a bit cold, are you ?







:roll: