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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Vindex wrote:

The Governor' s duty was to his Emperor; it was also his own reputation first and anything else was a bonus. A legionary general can be blamed for losing his men, the loss of the Province is his responsibility alone.

I couldn't agree more. Of course the Procurator also reported directly to the Emperor and not to the Governor and as we read Catus Decianus fled the Province to Gaul (where he disappears) after Camulodunum was destroyed. The "buck" however stopped with the Governor but I expect that his reputation would be enhanced by rescuing Roman citizens from certain death rather than abandoning them to their fate. 

Renatus wrote:

By contrast, the inhabitants of a provincial municipium, such as Verulamium, would not have become Roman citizens automatically.  The magistrates and their families would be granted citizenship upon their retirement but, as Verulamium had only recently been granted municipal status, there are unlikely to have been many of these.  Those who were citizens are likely to have been so already. 

Verulamium was granted municipal status in AD 50 which would indicate that it was already more than a village at that time and possibly a substantial place. In that case Verulamium by AD60 may well have been established for some 15 years. This would have attracted Roman citizens, traders, builders, architects, landowners etc. as was also the case with Londinium but the latter as more of an import /export Roman controlled port for the Province. Certainly the Procurator was based here for tax collecting purposes. The writers of the day certainly imply that between Camulodunum, Londinium and Verulamium a substantial number of people occupied these places before they were killed.       

Nathan Ross wrote:

I agree about the citizens (or not) in St Albans - there would have been a few enfranchised members of the tribal elite, but no more. It was more important, I would say, as a 'friendly' place to fall back on after abandoning London.

Verulamium was of huge political importance to Rome as it was one of the seats of power of the Brythons who opposed  the Claudius invasion (probably Caratacus).  Camulodunum was made a colonia in the same year. This was Rome stamping its authority on the Province and banishing the warring Brythons to the West. Again Verulamium was not a walled city which indicates that this was a safe place ripe for expansion.

Nathan Ross wrote:


The problem with a withdrawal up to Bulbourne valley towards Tring would be that it left a clear route for the rebels to bypass his position and head north from St Albans towards their homelands via the Iknield. That would look very much like Paulinus had avoided battle - a shameful prospect!


Chivery Top (Tring) is only 12 miles from Dunstable up the Icknield Way and guards the North West approach to the West.

I would propose that Tring was a better strategic position (but I would). 

If the Brythons did go North from Verulamium to pick up the Icknield Way, Paulinus was in the position to pursue the horde.

Paulinus' scouts would have been following the movements of the Brythons and he would have caught up with them by the following day with his 10,000 men, the refugees would have been in comparative safety at Tring from where they could have travelled to Alchester and then Cirencester etc.

The overwhelming opinion is that without the refugees the Roman Army could have easily have caught the Brythonic Army. In the field in a fixed battle the Roman Army was never beaten by the Brythons. The difficulty for the Roman generals was getting the Brythons to fight a fixed battle. 

Even then when they were beaten they were so fleet of foot that the majority would escape and re-group. After the Boudica battle the majority escaped but decided to disband when Boudica died.

Had he been at Dunstable the Brythonic Army could have split and one part have gone up Watling Street to his front whilst the other outflanked him via Tring and the Ickneld Way and circled around to his rear.

On the other hand if they wished to travel home they could have left Verulamium via Braughing and arrived at Colchester by the established road network by-passing Dunstable altogether.

It was likely however that both sides wanted to fight.

Deryk 



    

(11-22-2015, 04:32 PM)Renatus Wrote: We do not know when Paulinus gave up expecting assistance from the Second Legion (or rather, that part of it commanded by Postumus), if he ever did.  Nevertheless, he could and probably had called up reinforcements from the auxiliary units in South Wales, which would approach him along Akeman Street.  Likewise, he had probably called on some, if not all, of his troops in North Wales, which could have marched south initially along Watling Street and then cut down the Fosse Way or Ryknield Street to Akeman Street.  There is no problem in his being bypassed by the rebels proceeding up Watling Street to the Icknield Way.  As I have suggested, he could in that event go up the Icknield Way and cut them off at Dunstable or shadow them until his reinforcements caught up and attack them then.  He could always move faster than they could.

There was no shame in retreating, if circumstances demanded it.  Vegetius acknowledged that this frequently occurred.  The secret, he advised, was to do so in such a way as not to demoralise the troops.  This could be done by leading them to believe that this was part of a plan to lure the enemy to a more favourable battle site or to a point where they could be ambushed.  I have no doubt that, if called upon to do so, Paulinus could have made a speech to his men to the effect that he had every confidence that they were quite capable of defeating the enemy as they were but that he preferred to join up with 'our friends' and give the rebels such a trouncing that they would never dare to rise again.

Couldn't have put it better myself 

Deryk
Deryk
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand. - by Theoderic - 11-22-2015, 06:01 PM

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