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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
(01-06-2020, 10:25 AM)John1 Wrote: academia is developing this research industry but can't get around to finding the battlefield.

Good thing too - if they found it we'd have nothing left to argue about! [Image: tongue.png]

But yes, academic types clearly prefer writing about 'historical discourse' and the 'examination of the nature of history as a cultural phenomenon' to grubbing about in muddy holes looking for stray hobnails. I don't think we can blame them - two thousand years of 'durable cultural phenomena' presents a far meatier subject for historiography than the few scraps of Tacitus that we've been working on all this time.

And 'challenging the axioms of cultural history' is probably a better way of impressing one's academic peers than trying to present the case for a lost battlefield...

As I said before, unless the site turns up in some unexpected place (Wales? The Isle of Skye?) it would not alter the historical narrative in any way whatsoever, and so the actual location has only limited historical interest.
Nathan Ross
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"so the actual location has only limited historical interest."

My guess is;

a) that it probably exceeds the interest in "historical discourse' and the 'examination of the nature of history as a cultural phenomenon",
b) is probably not the case for readers of, and contributors to, this particular thread,
c) is probably not the case in a world where "The Curse of Oak Island" is up to Series 7 and still going......
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(01-06-2020, 12:51 PM)John1 Wrote: a) that it probably exceeds the interest in "historical discourse' and the 'examination of the nature of history as a cultural phenomenon",
b) is probably not the case for readers of, and contributors to, this particular thread,
c) is probably not the case in a world where "The Curse of Oak Island" is up to Series 7 and still going......

Ha, yes! I should rephrase my point: 'limited historical interest' for historians.

Finding the site would only confirm what we think we know already - that there was a battle in south-east or central England, and Boudica lost. It would not alter the historical narrative or expand what we know about the era. Academic careers are not built on such things.

For archaeologists working in the field of Roman military history, of course, it would be of great interest. Similarly for students of the Roman army, armchair generals of all sorts, and arguably the general public, as the years and years of posts on this thread demonstrate!

On a wider note, I've often been surprised and a bit frustrated by the specialisation within historical fields; often, when I read works by even the foremost of ancient historians, I'm amazed by their apparent disinterest or lack of awareness of military aspects in particular. Quite often they will glibly repeat ideas from decades or even centuries ago, without caring to investigate more current thinking. This presumably explains the endurance of some of Webster's ideas, for example.
Nathan Ross
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(01-06-2020, 10:25 AM)John1 Wrote: Anyone read this 2018 one?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Queen-Boudica-H...0198816723

Interesting snippet from the Martha Vandrei book, concerning a silent film called Boudicea, made in 1926:

   

"the exact site of the historical conflict... an area around the Dunstable downs..." [Image: smile.png]

(Actually I think Deryk suggested somewhere in the vicinity of the Ivinghoe Valley above somewhere!)
Nathan Ross
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Nathan Ross Wrote:Interesting snippet from the Martha Vandrei book, concerning a silent film called Boudicea, made in 1926:
"the exact site of the historical conflict... an area around the Dunstable downs..."

It would be interesting to know if there is a copy of the film in the BFI and to see what the battle looked like in the location where it was thought to have taken place.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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(01-07-2020, 03:22 PM)Renatus Wrote: It would be interesting to know if there is a copy of the film

Sadly it seems there is not: "Unfortunately the film itself has not survived, but there is... a detailed summary of the storyline" (Vandrei, above).
Nathan Ross
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Photo 
(01-07-2020, 01:33 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: "the exact site of the historical conflict... an area around the Dunstable downs..." [Image: smile.png]

(Actually I think Deryk suggested somewhere in the vicinity of the Ivinghoe Valley above somewhere!)

Hi, I've just been told about the site of a possible Roman marching camp just south-east of Ivinghoe Beacon, visible on the Chilterns Beacons LiDAR (www.chilternsbeacons.org.  It is at the foot of the hill where the National Trust car park is. Parts of two sides remain, one is 160 metres long, the other at right angles is 100 metres long. Of course it may be the remains of something quite different.  In view of the above comment about Ivinghoe I thought people here might be interested.

I can't post an image of the LiDAR, but I can give its co-ordinates X/Y  : 496485,216076, NGR: SP9648516076 and attach screenshots of the location in google Earth and Bing maps. If anyone is interested maybe they'd like to check it on the LiDAR? I don't know what such a camp should look like, would it be this size?          
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Photo 
(01-07-2020, 01:33 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: "the exact site of the historical conflict... an area around the Dunstable downs..." [Image: smile.png]

(Actually I think Deryk suggested somewhere in the vicinity of the Ivinghoe Valley above somewhere!)

Hi, I've just been told about the site of a possible Roman marching camp just south-east of Ivinghoe Beacon, visible on the Chilterns Beacons LiDAR (www.chilternsbeacons.org.  It is at the foot of the hill where the National Trust car park is. Parts of two sides remain, one is 160 metres long, the other at right angles is 100 metres long. There is an inner bank and ditch outside it, combined a few metres wide; the edges are quite clear-cut and straight.  Of course it may be the remains of something quite different.  In view of the above comment about Ivinghoe I thought people here might be interested.

I can't post an image of the LiDAR, but I can give its co-ordinates X/Y  : 496485,216076, NGR: SP9648516076 and attach screenshots of the location and outline shape in Google Earth and Bing maps. If anyone is interested maybe they'd like to check it on the LiDAR? I don't know what such a camp should look like, would it be this size?  [attachment=15136][attachment=15135]
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(01-28-2020, 06:47 PM)GardenG Wrote: I can't post an image of the LiDAR, but I can give its co-ordinates

Screenshot? Or does anyone else have access to this?

(you've repeated your post, btw - delete the second one, maybe?)
Nathan Ross
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not a point that is available on my lidar set, the red dot is the stated location;
   
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(01-28-2020, 06:54 PM)GardenG Wrote: Parts of two sides remain, one is 160 metres long, the other at right angles is 100 metres long.

That would make about 16,000 square metres, I reckon, which is 1.6 hectares. That might be about right for a cohort-size fort or a small camp, but for 10K men we'd be looking for around 15 hectares. Always possible that the 100 metre side could have been longer, I suppose.
Nathan Ross
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Just took a quick look at the lidar data in the area shown by John's red dot. There is a lidar feature; an L shaped elevation. Corner is square. Feature is on a steep-ish slope with elevation change of c. 15 m.

Wrong topographic location for a marching camp. Feature doesn't have rounded corner. Feature has a 'fresh' appearance - doesn't look old enough. And - written because it is expected of me - there is no nearby water supply. At a guess I'd say this might be a medieval to post-medieval, well-formed, banked, field boundary. Possibly enhanced expression of the bank due to down-slope migration of slope material.

Don't think this is a Roman marching camp.

Regards, Steve Kaye
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& for a lock down laugh;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7y0qsyzcMU&t=2253s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llYFclaRa-0&t=49s

499,159
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(03-30-2020, 10:43 AM)John1 Wrote: & for a lock down laugh;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7y0qsyzcMU&t=2253s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llYFclaRa-0&t=49s

499,159

"A hoard that may be attriubuted to the rebel queen, Boudicca"

Only, why would Roman coins have belonged to an Iceni queen?   Tongue
And even more so, why do those emperors looks so... fourth century? Truly she was ahead of her time..  Big Grin
Luckily at the end they agree on 'a hoard', and 'a significant place'. Smile
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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I can only imagine the editorial battles that went on to not over sensationalise those finds....
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