04-24-2010, 08:32 PM
Hi Nathan
Lots of interesting points. Hadn’t seen the Victory coin issue for c. 119 AD (though I realise the ‘spin’ of official state sanctioned versions of world events often played up the political and military reality) but tied to the (scanty) references to the 'British War’ it is all rather intriguing. There are of course rather a few Roman references to the Brigantes as enemies and I’m never sure whether these stemmed from the troubles evident under Cartimandua/Venutius, persistent troubles rumbling through the late 1st and early 2nd centuries or just because they were recognised as a people at the very limits of the (near) civilised world (and therefore bound to be troublesome).
Nathan Ross Said:
Any theories about the loss of the legion would still have to account for those officer inscriptions - Aemilius Karus, Novius Crispinus and Sextius Florentius can't be made to go away.
Indeed – ultimately it’s a shame though (at least for the purposes of working out exactly when the ninth was last functioning) that the dates for these three aren’t much later in the 2nd century. Birley, in his book The Roman Government of Britain observes that Aemilius Karus may have left the ninth in AD 122, Novius Crispinus’ tribunate of the ninth may have been as late as the mid 120s AD whilst Sextius Florentius can be dated “to Hadrian’s first few years”…all still uncomfortably close to the arrival of the sixth at York (to replace the ninth) in around AD 122 – and of course we don’t know how many officers were with any putative vexillations of the ninth at Nijmegan whilst the rest of the Legion were happily disappearing in Britain and/or the East). If the careers of these 3 men could confidently be placed in the late 120s or early 130s I’d be happier saying ‘it’s a fair cop’ and agreeing with the view that they must have been withdrawn from Britain before the sixth arrived and still operating elsewhere in the empire some time after. Of course none of the three men’s details specify exactly WHERE they served in the ninth…..I am, therefore, still prepared to be convinced….one way or another!
Cheers
Miles
Lots of interesting points. Hadn’t seen the Victory coin issue for c. 119 AD (though I realise the ‘spin’ of official state sanctioned versions of world events often played up the political and military reality) but tied to the (scanty) references to the 'British War’ it is all rather intriguing. There are of course rather a few Roman references to the Brigantes as enemies and I’m never sure whether these stemmed from the troubles evident under Cartimandua/Venutius, persistent troubles rumbling through the late 1st and early 2nd centuries or just because they were recognised as a people at the very limits of the (near) civilised world (and therefore bound to be troublesome).
Nathan Ross Said:
Any theories about the loss of the legion would still have to account for those officer inscriptions - Aemilius Karus, Novius Crispinus and Sextius Florentius can't be made to go away.
Indeed – ultimately it’s a shame though (at least for the purposes of working out exactly when the ninth was last functioning) that the dates for these three aren’t much later in the 2nd century. Birley, in his book The Roman Government of Britain observes that Aemilius Karus may have left the ninth in AD 122, Novius Crispinus’ tribunate of the ninth may have been as late as the mid 120s AD whilst Sextius Florentius can be dated “to Hadrian’s first few years”…all still uncomfortably close to the arrival of the sixth at York (to replace the ninth) in around AD 122 – and of course we don’t know how many officers were with any putative vexillations of the ninth at Nijmegan whilst the rest of the Legion were happily disappearing in Britain and/or the East). If the careers of these 3 men could confidently be placed in the late 120s or early 130s I’d be happier saying ‘it’s a fair cop’ and agreeing with the view that they must have been withdrawn from Britain before the sixth arrived and still operating elsewhere in the empire some time after. Of course none of the three men’s details specify exactly WHERE they served in the ninth…..I am, therefore, still prepared to be convinced….one way or another!
Cheers
Miles
