Simon Scarrows new book

[Praefectusclassis]

I enjoyed this new book from Simon Scarrow. It gets more into navy for those naval fans, with some interesting ideas. If a centurion was transferred to the fleet, would he take a pay cut? Did that actually happen where centurions passed between land and sea forces with regularity?

Centurions started passing from the fleet into the army with some regularity from Hadrian's reign. That would have been a promotion. An army centurion transferring to the navy in 45 AD would almost certainly have felt that as a distinct demotion. You have to remember that in that time freedman trierarchs were only just being phased out.
That being said, Simon writes good reads, so I'll prolly go get it anyway. wink:

[Arthes]

Greetings,
I had the pleasure of being introduced to Simon at Kelmarsh this year.
Although I was aware of his books, I thought they may be a little male orientated, however I have now read The Eagle's Prey, which I thoroughly enjoyed...and left me wondering about Cato's past!
What I also liked, is although the story is written from the Roman point of view, he also shows their attitude towards the Britons was far less than pleasant at times, to put it mildly.
Come on guys, if someone is invading your country and homeland because they think you are inferior, don't you try to fight back.... :roll: ?

An army centurion transferring to the navy in 45 AD would almost certainly have felt that as a distinct demotion

Lucius Artorius Castus went from being a Centurion (including of the Legio II Aduitrix) and Primus Pilus to Praepositis of the Fleet of Naples, I thought that was promotion?
regards
Arthes

[derek forrest]

Despite having been given an advance copy at Kelmarsh (thank you Simon) I have only just finished it as I started and then had to put it down to read up on a Lecture.

When I picked it up it was the same time as the Ravenna marine was first mentioned.

I liked the extra dimension of the sea ( I am a Hornblower fan) and Simon's skill at describing battles has transferred well to the sea.

There is a cast of the usual subjects with Cato gradually asserting his leadership abilities and Vitellius the man you like to hate (hiss boo). Some new characters too mostly expendable (star trek crewmen) with a delightful steal from a certain well known Roman detective series( I wonder if the author minds)

The plot works well and there was no question of putting it aside this time. I confess i did not guess who the informer was but then I was enjoying the mind picture of Cato on the lookout point too much to sherlock the clues.

On the authenticity front I have no major quibbles. Would Centurions normally march with a yoke? I don't know. We seemed to have Marines with various shapes of shields but alas the Ravenna Marine is Scutum less.

Where now for our intrepid pair? Is it more 007 stuff or back to the Eagles? Whatever I hope that Simon will not be too diverted from his Napoleonic excursion to ensure that we have our annual augustan Roman treat.

[Tarbicus]

I'm 3 pages from the end - AWESOME sea battles.

[Viventius]

Derek said:

with a delightful steal from a certain well known Roman detective series( I wonder if the author minds)

The author does mind (scroll down to Copyright issues):

http://www.lindseydavis.co.uk/lindseyspage.htm

You've probably got a collector's item there, btw!

[derek forrest]

Ouch! I see what you mean. Its surprising the Editor let them through. Maybe not a Falco fan. Not sure I agree with Mrs Davies. Clearly Simon should have asked for permission but I cannot see that such a reference would do her any harm. Maybe she takes herself a little too seriously or maybe I should be more understanding of her personal predicament.

[Robert Vermaat]

I do agree with the author. Falco is her creation and therefore she has the right to deny people to use her material. Ther's a technical description of that right, can't find it anywhere. It's not so much copyright in that others use her lines, but her (can't find the correct wording) 'artistic creation'. Simon Scarrow not only did not bother to ask her (which I find downright rude), but he also 'altered' her creation by adding information on Falco's parents, thereby distorting her creation of the character. Also, Nr Scarrow made money from his loan, which is a big no-no in the whole copyright issue.

I remember Rosemary Sutcliff asking the publisher of one of her earlier books if she was allowed to use her own characters in a book published by another publisher...

[Tarbicus]

but her (can't find the correct wording) 'artistic creation'

"Intellectual property".

[Robert Vermaat]

That's what I was looking for, thanks Tarbicus.. Mr Scarrow stole her intellectual property!

[Carus Andiae]

Judging from what Lindsey Davis says, it's not just that Simon Scarrow used the characters without permission, but also the way in which he used them (seriously misportraying Geminus and Falco's Ma, by the sound of it).. Having met Lindsey Davis I don't feel she takes herself - or anyone - too seriously, and I can understand her annoyance.

It's a shame to see how what was meant as a compliment turned sour, and I'm also sorry because I'm a fan of both authors.

[andym]

If you take this line then we might get Goscinny and Uderzo's Asterix books on the "Intellectual Rights" issue.I do feel that Simon Scarrow has become one (of if not the top) of the Top Authors of the roman period.To have Bernard Cornwell of Sharpe fame mention that "This is competition i could do without" is a huge compliment.
As for who should play Macro and Cato,Sean Bean is a distinct possibility for Macro.Cato could be played by the guy that was in the lead role in Band of Brothers.

[Vincula]

With this kind of petty attitude, we'd never have had Flashman.
And think of the number of artists who have paid homage to their predecessors.

this has caused distress to Ms Davis and confusion for her readers

More like distress to her lawyers and bank manager. :x

[Viventius]

More like distress to her lawyers and bank manager

I believe Ms Davis has not sued Scarrow. Apparently, her characters in Scarrow's book have not been portrayed in the same way as in her books, and it is this that has caused the distress.

btw, the original author/creator of the character of Flashman is long dead, so the characters are fair game. I've never read George MacDonald Fraser's books, but I wonder if he acknowledged up front where he got the character from. Ms Davis is, fortunately, still with us, and is owed some careful consideration.

[Robert Vermaat]

If you take this line then we might get Goscinny and Uderzo's Asterix books on the "Intellectual Rights" issue.

There is some difference between parody (when you need the original to make it a parody) and mis-using someone's ideas.

I do feel that Simon Scarrow has become one (of if not the top) of the Top Authors of the roman period.

If that is the case then he surely does not need to 'borrow' the characters of another successful author to enhance his own work. Let him be original and write about something else, with solely his own characters.

With this kind of petty attitude, we'd never have had Flashman.
And think of the number of artists who have paid homage to their predecessors.

This is not a petty attitude, it's a real concern about copyright and someone not only stealing your ideas, but also misrepresenting them.
I also fail to see how the above could in any way be considered as 'paying homage'. If Simon Scarrow wanted to pay homage, he should have done so in other ways.

[john m roberts]

There are copyright issues here and Ms. Davis is very right to be indignant. First off, Fraser freely admits that he got the flashman character from the nove "Tom Brown's School Days" by Tom Hughes. He even has Flashman meeting with Hughes and giving him inspiration to write the book! But when Fraser employs other authors' fictional characters in his novels (as in "Flashman and the Tiger") He uses only characters that are in the public domain. This means that the copyright has long since run out on them and anybody can use them. That is why you see so many Sherlock Holmes pastiches. The character is in public domain. Current U.S. law grants a copyright of the writer's life plus 50 years, so it will be a long time before anyone can use a copyrighted character. It used to be 20 years from date of publication unless the author or the author's heirs renewed the copyright. Edgar Rice Burroughs' heirs neglected to do this and Tarzan went public domain. Anyone can use the historical figures in my novels. Anyone who uses my fictional creations: Decius, Hermes, Asklepiodes and the rest, will hear from my lawyer.