Mykale, a naval battle?

[MeinPanzer]

Hello Ruben,

Some of the metal wear (as far as I am aware) and at least one of the saddle cloths is either Iranian, or at least is decorated in Iranian style. The saddle cloth in particular actually has Persian's in Elamite robes on it!

Next to no metal objects were found in the Pazyryk burials, and nothing Iranian - the only non-textile objects which reflect Achaemenid influence are a few carved heads which look a lot like Bes, and are thought to have been transmitted from Egypt through the empire to the east. Other than that, there is the pile carpet and one shabraque with depictions of Iranians, and then a wall hanging and a few bits of textile which were resewn into shabraques which show signs of Achaemenid influence.

I am aware of the date of the Pazyryk burials. Was the Achaemenid empire still not in power in the 4th century? Im not trying to say that the shields are of Iranian manufacture, but that the construction methods are the same.

If the newer assessment of the burials' dates are correct, then the Achaemenid empire wasn't still in power when they were filled, as they likely date to the late 4th or early 3rd c. BC. Construction methods clearly are very similar, however.

We have already talked about them being different sizes and being used in a different manner to the Persian spara, this is not what I am interested in, it is the construction that is relevant.

I am only pointing out that there are a few sources which attest to this type of shield being carried, while you stated before that we don't know how such shields were employed.

This is the problem, Western Anatolians are not Persian. There are a few in Greek art that look similar, but none look exact. Use the Persepolis and other actual Iranian depictions as a guide. The Oxus hoard depicts many different styles of dress, a few of which are thought to be Persian.
Long sleeves on the tunics, yes they match. But where is the actual tunic? this should extend to the knee. Which is doesn't on a single Greek depiction.
Leggings are the right tightness, but as I have discussed extensively in another thread, they did not wear trousers. They wore hoes, or long socks.
The thing I am trying to get at is, how do we know they are even trying to depict a Persian? they may be Anatolian, Skythian or some other nationality.

One source I mentioned was Anatolian, and those coins only show the tiara, which is clearly shown elsewhere as well - and they are relevant anyway, since they clearly show the satraps wearing Persian tiara to assert their legitimacy. But again, you point to Iranian depictions, but how many Iranian depictions of Persian infantry do we have which give a good idea of the costume worn in combat? There is actually a source I forgot about which is helpful, though: the Munich painted battle scenes. These show numerous horsemen who are quite clearly shown wearing short tunics (reaching only to the waist) and tight trousers (not leggings, since shoes are painted in a different colour), as well as tiaras, all of which match the Greek depictions of Achaemenid cavalry and infantry exactly. And there are several depictions of Persians wearing knee-length long-sleeved tunics on Greek vases: I can find one from a Tanagra lecythus dating to c. 460 BC; two on a red figure oinochoe, c. 450 BC; one on an oinochoe from Bologna, 5th c. BC; and two on an Attic pelice, early 4th c. BC.

You're right that sometimes it can be unclear which nationality in particular Greeks are trying to depict, but when, for instance, the scene can be linked to a historical event - such as the Eurymedon vase - there can be no doubt that many of these figures were intended to be Persians. And we know that only high-ranking officials like satraps wore the tiara in Anatolia, and so the rank-and-file troops depicted are almost certainly not Anatolians. While it's clear that Greek artists could distort details and did not create photographic reproductions of the peoples they encountered in their art, I see no reason to doubt many of the depictions, especially with regards to unusual pieces of military equipment, like the gorytus, which was quite carefully reproduced in Greek art, and the spara.