Uratian and Persia shields

[PMBardunias]

There is a shield type from Urartu that shared a bronze covered convex face and offset rim with the Greek Argive aspis (first image below). The similarity pretty well ends there though, because the shield appears to be held in the hand by a single grip, oddly offset, and a strap (second image). As you can see the handle was not in the middle, but above the center line, squarely in the top half of the bowl. This is an odd and awkward place to hold shield.

I also have pondered this extremely large and convex, though rimless Persian (wicker?)shield. I noticed that the hand placement is off center towards the top of the bowl. I wonder if this shield has any conncetion to the Uratian one.

Any ideas? Comments on the two shield types? Anyone happen to know the ethnicity of the man in the Persian relief?

[Sean Manning]

Interesting idea! I'm not sure which nation of guards those are ... the hoods are like Saca or Persians but I don't recognize the robes. I've only seen these deeply domed shields in the Persepolis reliefs.

Do we know that the Urartian objects are shields? I've seen it suggested that they were eg. covers for bronze vessels, although the handle on the convex side would be odd for that. The very off center hand grip is strange, and so are the two smaller handles.

[PMBardunias]

Do we know that the Urartian objects are shields? I've seen it suggested that they were eg. covers for bronze vessels, although the handle on the convex side would be odd for that. The very off center hand grip is strange, and so are the two smaller handles.

Hey Sean, Snodgrass identifies them as shields, as well as some recent metallurgical papers on them. I too wondered looking at them because they are so odd. The way it is supposed to work is that the two, small, lateral loops are for a strap like a telamon.

Here is another one, you can see from the rivets that the handle is in the same place (top below).

I'm reposting this odd shield because it shares some features with the persian one (bottom image).

[immortal]

There is a shield type from Urartu that shared a bronze covered convex face and offset rim with the Greek Argive aspis (first image below). The similarity pretty well ends there though, because the shield appears to be held in the hand by a single grip, oddly offset, and a strap (second image). As you can see the handle was not in the middle, but above the center line, squarely in the top half of the bowl. This is an odd and awkward place to hold shield.

I also have pondered this extremely large and convex, though rimless Persian (wicker?)shield. I noticed that the hand placement is off center towards the top of the bowl. I wonder if this shield has any conncetion to the Uratian one.

Any ideas? Comments on the two shield types? Anyone happen to know the ethnicity of the man in the Persian relief?

The figures from Persepolis are Thracians. I always found the shields strikingly simular to the shape Greek shields. As a number of Greek artists were working at Persepolis I think they are probably accurate.

Round sheilds are quite common in Uratian use in Assyrian art, although they are usually flat. Do you know the date of the sheild? Uratu used shielded cavalry, so the offset grip may be designed to make riding easier? There is a relief often neglected that shows an Assyrian aid to the king with a small round shield bearing a sun motif.
Early Assyrian depictions also show archers using small round shields.

What is the providence of the first sheild PMBardunias posted? The decoration certainly looks Uratian or Mesopotaimian.
The second Greek depiction looks just like a Cypriot shield.

[PMBardunias]

The figures from Persepolis are Thracians. I always found the shields strikingly simular to the shape Greek shields. As a number of Greek artists were working at Persepolis I think they are probably accurate.

Thanks, that's great to know, I was hoping you'd jump into this thread. They surely could be representations of aspides, with liberties taken, but here we have a big, convex shield, seemingly rimless and almost hemisperical. This looks very much like what will become the Macedonian pelta- some of which were quite large. But then there is the odd way he is holding it, much like those Urartian shields must have been held. Snodgrass notes that a shield from the Pilsen hoard has a similar suspension system to the Urartian type, so perhaps this was known around the Black sea.

Round sheilds are quite common in Uratian use in Assyrian art, although they are usually flat. Do you know the date of the sheild?

I don't have a date for that specific shield, but similar shields have been dated to the 8thc and a paper, "The bronze shields found at the Ayanis fortress (Van region,Turkey): manufacturing techniques and corrosion phenomena", dates one to 673-645 bc (See below).

Uratu used shielded cavalry, so the offset grip may be designed to make riding easier?

Could be, we need a horseman.

There is a relief often neglected that shows an Assyrian aid to the king with a small round shield bearing a sun motif.
Early Assyrian depictions also show archers using small round shields.

I am amazed at the variability in Assyrian shields. Some of the convex, practically conical, shields are quite large. Then there is that tall, round-topped, hemicylindrical shield that I have read originates in Egypt. From what I have seen though, all of these shields are held with a single grip. I'd like to see that relief if you have it.

The second Greek depiction looks just like a Cypriot shield.

I agree, it looks like those Cyprian, ultimately phoenecian shields. It is the concentric circles that makes me think of the Persian relief. I had assumed that the relief was attempting to indicate some type of woven structure, but the Cyprian type would not be woven.

[immortal]

Do you have a link to where I could read more about these shields Paul? I am looking into Uratian arms and armour at the moment, which I must admit I am having difficulty with.
Anything from the 7th century is of particular interest.

The Thracian shields are something of an oddity. I have heard of comparisons to Tibetan shields of all things!

Do you have a diameter for that shield? I am trying to figure out exactly how that configuration of handles would be used, it doesn’t make much sense.
The decoration on it seems to be triggering something in the back of my mind.

I will compile all of the Assyrian shields I have found so far and post them for you.

[PMBardunias]

Send me an email and I will send the papers to you- I have a file on Urartian shields (and some other Assyrian stuff that might interest you). I look forward to hearing your analysis of this enigmatic shield.

[PMBardunias]

It seems that either infantry or cavalry can carry rimmed shields. hard to tell much more though. It is interesting that the infantryman is holding his (long!) spear with two hands, and the shield is apparently slung.

[immortal]

Shielded cavalry in Assyria seem to disappear around the 8th century. I believe the Neo-Hittite states and the Uratians were still using them at this point though.
I have compiled all of the round Assyrian styles I have to hand. The bas relief images are all from the 8th to early 7th centuries.


Also, here is an Uratian shield in the British museum which matches the decoration on your image very closely (I thought I had seen something like it before!)

[PMBardunias]

Notice on the shield you posted the position of the two trios of rivets that show where the handle is secured. Also, I forgot that I started a thread on Assyrian shields a while back:

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[immortal]

Yes, the offset handle is very interesting. I cant think of its function though, or why you would need it to be off set.
Theonly thing I can think of is that if you held it with the handle at the bottom of the shield and with the back of your hand against the shield back, your arm would fit nicely inside while bent at the elbow and you shoulder could take the wieght at the top. This would fit with how Assyrian soldiers are shown as holding their shields.

The two additional handles suggest a strap. Sheilds like the conical Assyrian model (likely borrowed from the Uratians, like a lot of their armour and weapons) are shown slung on their backs.

Would it be relevent to post other items of Uratian armour in this thread? I am sure you are aware of the similarities between the crested helmet and early Greek models?

Would it also be okay to revive the old Assyrian thread? I have much I can share on their arms and armour.

[PMBardunias]

Yes, the offset handle is very interesting. I cant think of its function though, or why you would need it to be off set.
Theonly thing I can think of is that if you held it with the handle at the bottom of the shield and with the back of your hand against the shield back, your arm would fit nicely inside while bent at the elbow and you shoulder could take the wieght at the top. This would fit with how Assyrian soldiers are shown as holding their shields.

The problem with holding the shield with the handle on the bottom is that the anchors for the strap are on the same side and they logically should be on the top of the shield because the shield would want to flop forward if not. I thought based on some Assyrian reliefs that perhaps they held the shield with the arm bent and pointing straight up. In this way the shield might even be rested on the elbow in some sort of bastardized double grip-like manner. But its a terrible way to hold a shield.

One thought was that perhaps this is not the whole shield, but in a effect a really large boss for one of those other shield types. If a majority of the rest of the shield were lower than the "boss", then the strap could be on the lower half without unbalancing the shield. A shield held in that manner would naturally tip up to present the face at a good angle for intercepting missiles. (Yes, I'm throwing any wild notion out for discussion, because I have no clue)

Would it be relevent to post other items of Uratian armour in this thread? I am sure you are aware of the similarities between the crested helmet and early Greek models? Would it also be okay to revive the old Assyrian thread? I have much I can share on their arms and armour

I kick-started the old thread with a helmet comparison, post away!

[immortal]

One thought was that perhaps this is not the whole shield, but in a effect a really large boss for one of those other shield types. If a majority of the rest of the shield were lower than the "boss", then the strap could be on the lower half without unbalancing the shield. A shield held in that manner would naturally tip up to present the face at a good angle for intercepting missiles. (Yes, I'm throwing any wild notion out for discussion, because I have no clue)

Now this is a very interesting thought... the offset grip makes sense in this situation. The large shields are supposed to be made from boiled leather with a bronze or copper boss.
The conical shields main purpose was to deflect missiles.
I'll look through my reference material and contribute to the other thread too.
This forum is a great place!