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08-23-2002, 05:16 PM

Hello, I'm new here but some of you may know me as the author of the SPQR mysteries. 
For some time now I have been in contact with Marcus Junkellman and trying to get him an English-language publisher for "Das Spiel mit dem Tod," a wonderful book. We discovered that both of us had contacted Osprey in past years, proposing to write them a gladiator book. Either of us would have written a far better one than this. Why they went with this one eludes me.

Gashford · 08-23-2002, 05:35 PM

Hello John and welcome to the forums. 
 
Graham

08-24-2002, 10:51 AM

My two cents worth about Osprey mistakes. I was browsing throug "Romano-Byzantines Armies" yesterday. I found this under a picture on page 24: 
"This extraordinary byzantine ivory figurine is sometimes thought to date from 10th-13th centuries. Its purpose is unclear and nothing else like it seem to survive. 
The helmet with its crest and face covering visor, the tall rectangular shield and the gaiter-like protection on the left leg could suggest a 4th-7th century date". 
The gladiator specialists amongst us will probably have recognized an hoplomachus in this description when I add that the figure holds a short straight sword. Most likely a secutor (the helmet is of the round short crested type). 
The "extradordinary byzantine ivory figure" is most probably made out of bone, to begin with and is most likely to be a knife handle in the shape of a secutor of high imperial date. 
"Nothing else like it seem to survive". 
Of course I've seem several of these gladiator shaped knife handles. It was obviously a common design...

08-24-2002, 01:50 PM

Hi Suzy, 
Cant believe I bought this book last week whilst on holiday in Norfolk! I,m so glad I saw your post because I,m new to the period and would have swallowed what was written hook,line and sinker!! I also bought a book called The Gladiator ..The secret history of Romes Warrior Slaves by Alan Baker..Ebury Press.. I really enjoyed it but does anyone have comments on the quality of this book too? 
Thanks, 
Mark.

08-24-2002, 11:08 PM

I'd just ordered the book before all this came up so it was with some trepidation I went through it, when I got it today! 
 
Good news: 
Most, if not all, of Suzy's points from the post above have actually been corrected in this new edition. 
Seems that they actually pay attention at Osprey. 
Way to go, Suzy!

08-25-2002, 03:40 PM

Good news! But please tell me that they also changed all those 
bloody awful sketch drawings. 
 
Susan

**richsc** · 08-25-2002, 05:15 PM

Do we get to trade in our earlier editions for the bug fixes? Richard Campbell, Legio XX.
http://www.geocities.com/richsc53/studies/

08-25-2002, 07:20 PM

As a relative newcomer to the history of ancient Rome this kind of thread is both useful and welcome, thanks suzy. 
 
I thought some of you might like to see this picture, a nice bronze of a Secutor, which i took at the museum at Arles the other week whilst on holiday. 
 
<img src="http://home.c2i.net/simonorch/glad1.jpg">

08-26-2002, 09:18 AM

Suzy, I'm afraid they didn't. 
So a partial fix at best.

08-27-2002, 09:40 AM

I thought fixing up the illustrations would be too much to hope for. Those drawings are HORRIBLE! Therefore in my opinion the book still sucks dogs. 
 
The little secutor is cute! His visor also flips up so you can see his little face underneath. I love these little gladiator figures. 
 
Susan

Muzzaguchi · 08-30-2002, 12:51 AM

Suzy, 
 
Thank you for your corrections - I have the 'old' uncorrected edition and I have appended your corrections to it. A most useful addition 
 
Thank you! 
 
Muzzaguchi

09-15-2002, 01:11 PM

I saw the reprinted edition of the book recently. Osprey didn't exactly strain themselves righting the wrongs of the first edition did they? Just a few quick and easy changes here and there. That stupid "dwarf gladiator" illustration which they left in really annoys me! A dwarf, yes; a gladiator, NO! Boooh! 
 
(A decidedly not very impressed) Susan

**Robert Vermaat** · 09-17-2002, 11:01 AM

I, too, absolutely adore the work by Angus Mc Bride, and often by Osprey titles or others blind, simply because he illustrated them. 
 
But, one remark about Late Roman Infantryman (and LR Cavalryman for that matter), these are not less valuable because Angus did not illustrate them. To be frank, our favorite illustrator is less good with details when it comes to Late Roman stuff. His fibulae are fanciful, to say the least, or worse, judging from his Rome's Imperial Army at War and the Germanic Warrior artwork. I liked the Adrianople scene though. His belts are not good either, and I've never seen a good rawhide rim on any of his shields. Often, I've tried to put my Sagum on the same, neat, way as he draws them - impossible! 
 
His best LR are on the first plate of Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars, actually, which dates a few years back. Any LR illustrations from The Barbarians or The Celts (not the Osprey title) are simply appaling.. 
 
Cheers, 
Robert 
 
'Cives Francorum, Miles Romanorum'

10-14-2002, 12:26 PM

Hi, 
 
Just picked up this thread ... glad I wasn't the only one who was miffed with this book. I had pre-ordered it on Amazon & was not a happy bunny on receipt !!!! One good thing was the author's photo ... I can scowl at him. 
 
I have a particular interst in Gladiators and tend to buy anything that has a passing reference to them in it. 
 
Where I am still confused is the manica and the Thracian upper leg defenses. The metal reconstructions I have seen of a metal manica leaves the inner arm covered only by cloth or leather and lacing. Would this not leave an opening for a thrust ? 
 
Would purely linen padding be enough to protect ? 
 
What about a fabric covering for metal plates ? 
 
Anyone got any ideas. 
 
Regards 
 
Conal

10-14-2002, 02:52 PM

Marcus Junkelmann is of the opinion that the primary purpose of the manica was to protect the wearer's arm from the battering of the shield rim - both his opponent's and his own. In Marcus' reenactment group the manicae are made of thich padding. This is a point to consider, since gladiatorial shields were often large, while the swords were sometimes just daggers, meaning you had to reach way over two shields to inflict a wound. 
No gladiator representation I know of shows a gap inside the elbow, but that could be artistic convention. We'll never know until an actual segmented manica is found.

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