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A Military Explanation for the Fall of the Roman Empire
#1
Greetings all!<br>
I just recently finished reading The Fall of the Roman Empire: The Military Explanation by Arthur Ferrill. His main thesis centers around the destruction of Rome as a result of two main problems with the army.<br>
One, the "barbarization" of the army i.e. influx of Germans and others into the ranks of the legions. Second, he proposes that the collapse was due to the barbarian influcences that caused the discipline and training of the legions to break dow which, he states, caused the close order formations of the legion to not function properly anymore which, consquently, led to Rome's defeat at the hands of the barbarians.<br>
I am also wondering about several other items he raises:<br>
1. He states that the barbarians became primarily an infantry army (I had been told in school and college that one of the reasons for the defeat of Rome was cavalry vs. infantry warfare).<br>
2. He also mentions that the arym of the later empire has many horse back archers. I had heard about this about Byzantium, but never with the Western Empire.<br>
Any help would be appreciated. I have only recently began a detailed study of Rome, so most of this is new to me. As an educator, I want to give my students as much variety of valid theories as possible, but I also want to know if the idea are valid or at least feasible.<br>
Thanks in advance for any help. I hope with the help I receive here that I can inspire my students to explore Rome on their own so the more detail I have the better.<br>
Tim <p></p><i></i>
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#2
That is a very popular topic around here. Have you tried the search threads feature at the top of the page? You will probably find many threads on that and very similar topics. I'm sure you will find much to think about and many recommended books. <p></p><i></i>
Tom Mallory
NY, USA
Wannabe winner of the corona
graminea and the Indy 500.
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#3
You might wish to read "The Late Roman Army" by Pat Southern abd Karen Dixon, recently re-released in paperback, AD2000, ISBN 0-415-22296-6. Their in detail analysis may give you a different point of view, and there are nice photos of some helmets, as well. <p>"Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987</p><i></i>
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
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#4
I'd also recommend Burns' "Barbarians Within the Gates of Rome" and Elton's book on Roman warfare 350-425 as well. <p></p><i></i>
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#5
Hi,<br>
as for "The Late Roman Army" from Southern and Dixon, here you can read review of this book by Hugh Elton:<br>
ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/1...02.16.html<br>
<br>
Alexandr <p></p><i></i>
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#6
Salve,<br>
<br>
The index of threads has a section on the late Roman army where various previous discussions have been grouped together.<br>
<br>
See this previous thread on the book in the history section.<br>
<br>
Some publications on the later army:<br>
<br>
Austin, N.J.E. and N.B. Rankov, <em>Exploratio. Military intelligence in the Roman world from the second Punic war to the battle of Adrianople</em> (London 1995) 292p.<br>
Brewer, R.J. (ed.), <em>Roman fortresses and their legions</em> (London 2000) 187p. Good article by Tomlin on late Roman legions.<br>
Burns, T.S., 'The battle of Adrianople: a reconsideration' in: <em>Historia</em> 22 (1973), 336-345. Deals with the heavy cavalry myth.<br>
Burns, T.S., <em>Barbarians within the gates of Rome. A study of Roman military policy and the barbarians, ca 375-425 AD</em> (Bloomington and Indianapolis 1994) 417p.<br>
Coello, T., <em>Unit Sizes in the Late Roman Army</em> BAR S645 (Oxford 1996).<br>
Crump, G.A., 'Ammianus and the Late Roman Army' in: <em>Historia</em> 22 (1973), 91-103.<br>
Crump, G.A., <em>Ammianus as a military historian. Historia Einzelschriften 27</em> (Stuttgart 1975) 140p.<br>
Dixon, K.R. and P. Southern, <em>The late Roman army</em> (London 1996) 206p. Read together with Elton.<br>
Duncan-Jones, R.P., 'Pay and numbers in Diocletian's army' in: <em>Chiron</em> 8 (197EM , 541-560.<br>
Dennis, G.T., <em>Maurice's Strategikon. handbook of Byzantine military strategy</em> ( Philadelphia 1984) 178p.<br>
Elton, H., <em>Warfare in Roman Europe AD 350-425</em> (Oxford 1996)[/i] 312p. Important for correction of barbarisation theories.<br>
Grosse, R., <em>Römische Militärgeschichte</em> (Berlin 1920).<br>
Haldon, J., <em>Warfare, state and society in the Byzantine world 565-1204</em> (London 1999) 389p.<br>
Hoffmann, D., <em>Das spätrömische Bewegungsheer und die Notitia Dignitatum</em> (Dusseldorf 1969). Views on barbarisation outdated, but well argued study on possible army movements.<br>
Jones, A.H.M., <em>The later Roman empire</em> (Oxford 1964). Good chapter on military affairs.<br>
Luttwak, E.N., <em>The grand strategy of the Roman Empire</em> (Baltimore 1976) 255p.<br>
MacDowall, S., <em>Late Roman Infantryman</em> W 9 (London 1994) 64p. Above average Osprey.<br>
MacDowall, S., <em>Late Roman Cavalryman</em> W 15 (London 1995) 64p. Idem.<br>
MacDowall, S., <em>Adrianople AD 378</em> CA 84 (London 2001) 96p. Idem.<br>
MacMullen, R., <em>Soldier and civilian in the Later Roman Empire</em> (Cambridge Mass. 1963). Lots of interesting stuff to correct Roman military machine mirage.<br>
Milner, N.P., <em>Vegetius: epitome of military science</em> (Liverpool 1993) 152p.<br>
Nicasie, M.J., <em>The twilight of empire. The Roman army from the reign of Diocletian until the battle of Adrianople</em>(Amsterdam 199EM 321p.<br>
Raaflaub, K. and N. Rosenstein (ed.), <em>War and society in the ancient and medieval world</em> (Cambridge MA 1999) 484p.<br>
Scharf, R., 'Seniores-Iuniores und die Heeresteilung des Jahres 364' in: <em>ZPE</em> 89 (1991), 265-272.<br>
Seeck, O. (ed.), <em>Notitia Dignitatum</em> (Frankfurt aM 1876) 339p. Contains army order of battle as well as many shield patterns of the field army.<br>
Shaw, B.D., 'War and violence' in: G.W. Bowersock, P. Brown, O. Grabat (eds.), <em>Late Antiquity: a guide to the postclassical world</em> (Harvard 1999), 130-169.<br>
Speidel, M.P., <em>Roman army studies I</em> (Amsterdam). Various relevant articles.<br>
Speidel, M.P., <em>Roman army studies II</em> (Stuttgart 1992) 430p. Idem.<br>
Speidel, M.P., <em>The framework of an imperial legion</em> (Cardiff 1992) 47p.<br>
Tomlin, R.S.O., 'Seniores-Iuniores in the Late-Roman field army' in: <em>American Journal of Philology</em> 93 (1972), 253-278.<br>
Tomlin, R.S.O, 'Rome's decline and fall' in: Cross, R. (ed.) <em>Warfare: a chronological history</em> (London 1991), 46-59.<br>
Tomlin, R.S.O., 'The Army of the Late Empire', in Wacher, J., ed., <em>The Roman World</em> (London 1987), 107-133 (also wrote the late Roman chapter in Connolly's <em>Greece and Rome at war</em>, good article on late Roman legions in Brewer, R.J. (ed.), <em>Roman fortresses and their legions</em> (London 2000) 187p.)<br>
Treadgold, W., <em>Byzantium and its army </em> (Stanford 1995) 249p. Mainly pay and numbers.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sandervandorst@romanarmytalk>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 1/6/03 3:16:54 pm<br></i>
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#7
Thank you all for your help. I need to remember to search the threads! Thanks for the extensive bib. Sander. With my teaching job it is sometime difficult to compile all this information and I just want to say you've all been a big help. Thanks again!<br>
Tim <p></p><i></i>
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