Long sleeved Hellenistic tunics - evidence ?

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

In some books, new and old, Carthaginian soldiers (i.e. native Carthaginians) are often depicted as wearing long sleeved tunics but the authors don't cite sources for their reconstructions. What evidence is there that any Hellenistic soldiers wore long sleeved tunics ?

The only example I can think of is the famous Alexander fresco from Pompeii.
But Alexander was king and so his clothing probably isn't representative of what his officers or men wore in battle.
And he is technically a pre-Hellenistic figure.

Is there other evidence for long sleeved tunics ?

~Theo

[Paralus]

The "Alexander sarcophagus" and the Kinch tomb, off the top of my head, show cavalrymen in long sleve tunics.

[MeinPanzer]

Avete,

In some books, new and old, Carthaginian soldiers (i.e. native Carthaginians) are often depicted as wearing long sleeved tunics but the authors don't cite sources for their reconstructions. What evidence is there that any Hellenistic soldiers wore long sleeved tunics ?

The only example I can think of is the famous Alexander fresco from Pompeii.
But Alexander was king and so his clothing probably isn't representative of what his officers or men wore in battle.
And he is technically a pre-Hellenistic figure.

Is there other evidence for long sleeved tunics ?

~Theo

I can't speak for Carthaginian evidence, but there's plenty of evidence from the Hellenistic world. The long-sleeved tunic was primarily worn by cavalrymen and seems to have fallen out of use by 275 BC. To name a handful off the top of my head besides those already mentioned:

An early 3rd c. BC bronze figurine from Dodona of a general or high officer.

A fresco from Pompeii believed to be a copy of a Hellenistic original showing a dismounted man attending a sacrifice.

A 4th-3rd c. BC tomb painting from Dion showing a cavalryman.

[hoplite14gr]

Long sleeved tunics were knwon from the Bronze Age in Greece.
Warrior Vase comes to mind.
Bronse age artifacts show them too.
They were more easily encountered in Northern Greece rather than South Greece
and they are associated with the Thessalians.

Macedonian tomb frescoes of horsemen show them too

kind regards

[abou]

I know of the Kinch tomb cavalryman, which is 4th-3rd BC. Caesar was also said to wear long-sleeved tunics, but was sometimes mocked because of an implied femininity in the style.

[Theodosius the Great]

Thanks, everyone, for your learned responses.

In a Hellenistic context it seems only cavalrymen sometimes wore long sleeved tunics.

Maybe there is Pheonician evidence of infantrymen wearing them.
I'm just trying to guess why modern artists draw Carthaginian hoplites with these tunics.
Maybe the authors are just speculating.

Valete,
~Theo

[barcid]

Thanks, everyone, for your learned responses.

In a Hellenistic context it seems only cavalrymen sometimes wore long sleeved tunics.

Maybe there is Pheonician evidence of infantrymen wearing them.
I'm just trying to guess why modern artists draw Carthaginian hoplites with these tunics.
Maybe the authors are just speculating.

Valete,
~Theo

Maybe there is Pheonician evidence of infantrymen wearing them not that im aware of

I'm just trying to guess why modern artists draw Carthaginian hoplites with these tunics. the long tunic with long sleeves come with the original settlers in Nth. africa from the east around 814 BC, there is no evidence im aware of for or against punic hoplites wearing it , perhaps it is the only recognisable Punic article ,so is used. all manner of Hellenic clothing was popular from around 300BC

[Avtandil]

As to the East, it was probably necessary to wear sleeved tunics. There are some evidences from Bactria, namely gold buckle from Tillya-Tepe showing pair of deities, and (perhaps) figure from Staraya Nisa rhyton. Both are associated with specific areas though, and may not be representative to hellenistic world as a whole (assuming that such definition as "hellenistic world" ever existed).

[ScipioAsina]

Evidence for the appearance of Carthaginians is few and far between, and I have not seen anything that would suggest long-sleeved tunics. Some Punic artwork does depict priests and deities in robes, but this obviously does not apply to a military context.

I'm really not sure what a lot of modern artists base their reconstructions on. For example, the recent Osprey publication Carthaginian Warrior shows a levy with a kopis and masked Phrygian helmet without offering any evidence for this depiction.

[barcid]

Hi Jeff i have the same publication . nice depiction but no evidence as you say , i saw the long sleeves first time in the 1982 WRG publication armies of the punic & macedonian wars by Duncan Head & Ian Heath .the priest carving you mention is from Motya .