Roman helmet surface

[terzer]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum, though I always loved the Roman military system.
However i have a question: What was the surface of the roman helmet? I mean, was it was shiny, glossy, matte? I doubt that the helmets were shiny (as shown in most re-enhancements and reconstructions). All available info is based on founded artifacts (which are rusty), on sculptures and slabstones...
Is there a proof, what was the exact surface?
This question also applies for lorica segmentata.
Thank You!


edit: one more question. I see in many movies (i know they are quite unhistorical) that there are some leather helmets. Existed this kind of "armor"?

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

We've had a couple long discussion on this in the past (the search function should turn them up), but the upshot is Yes, helmets and armor were shiny. There is still some debate about just *how* shiny, and no doubt that varied some in any case. I generally go with a satin finish on steel/iron, and a glossier shine, not quite a mirror polish, on brass and bronze. The shinier a surface is, the more resistant it will be to corrosion, since there are fewer microscopic grooves and pits for moisture to stick in. That's the theory as I've heard it, at least! Maintaining a good gloss on brass and bronze is just too simple, and simple fine abrasives like dust or ashes work very well on steel and iron.

Bottom line, every depiction of armor shows it as white/silvery or yellow/gold, and every description in literature describes it as "bright" or "shining", using the same words used to describe silver or jewels or sunshine or stars. And many original pieces show traces of tinning or silvering, so clearly the Romans liked a bright surface. Hey, that's what armor is for, to make you shine like a god!

There are a few suggestions in literature that leather or hide helmets did exist in antiquity, meaning WAY back in early Roman times or before. And it's possible that a few were still being used in other cultures right through the Roman era. But not, as far as we can tell, in the Roman army itself during the Republic or Principate. Not a hint of that. Rule of thumb: Everything in the movies is wrong!

Vale,

Matthew

[terzer]

Thank You so much, i couldn't expect more thorough answer.
I know that the movies are wrong, but i wanted to ask, just in case
Ave!

[jkaler48]

Remember the Legion commanders liked to keep the troops busy so what better when its too cold or wet to do build roads drill etc ? Why clean and shine your helmet and armor of course!

[terzer]

But will the technologies back then allow a smooth and shiny armor to be made?
I doubt it was possible to crate so smooth surface http://www.melbar.de/Ruestungen/Helme/H ... TW6053.jpg

[jkaler48]

But will the technologies back then allow a smooth and shiny armor to be made?
I doubt it was possible to crate so smooth surface http://www.melbar.de/Ruestungen/Helme/H ... TW6053.jpg

From even earlier in Egypt it was possible to polish well enough for mirrors. The Medusa was turned to stone from seeing her own reflection in the polished shield.

[terzer]

But will the technologies back then allow a smooth and shiny armor to be made?
I doubt it was possible to crate so smooth surface http://www.melbar.de/Ruestungen/Helme/H ... TW6053.jpg

From even earlier in Egypt it was possible to polish well enough for mirrors. The Medusa was turned to stone from seeing her own reflection in the polished shield.

which is a myth.
I don't speak for the mirror polishing, i think the surface itself was not so even, so a perfectly shiny armor to be made.

[jvrjenivs]

Then I think you're unaware of the level of the craftsmen in the period we're discussing. They could easily make perfect even surfaces, also with mirror finsih.

I personally also would say it was shiny. Indeed it helps to prevent rust, but I would add some more evidence, which is in the fact that the Romans (and especially Cavalry) tent to finish all their pieces in Silver (and gold). You wouldn't do this if you didn't fancy the shiny look.

See for instance this famous cavalry helmets mask from Nijmegen:
[url:128x9j3w]http://www.romancoins.info/milit-mask-N.jpg[/url]

Ow, and to add to your last question (about leather armour/helmets). We still have an ongoing discussion about it. Look for instance in the 'reviews' section of this forum for the topic discussion the newest book by D'amato. We've just recently seen that discussion there.

[terzer]

I'm convinced now. It's just amazing how advanced they were!
Thanks!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

There was a post on facebook today concerning the fabrication ofthese facemasks, Of folded iron, they also appeat to be more robust than a simple parade item, capable of withstanding a balista bolt. Very interesting info there.

[jvrjenivs]

There was a post on facebook today concerning the fabrication ofthese facemasks, Of folded iron, they also appeat to be more robust than a simple parade item, capable of withstanding a balista bolt. Very interesting info there.

I think I've posted that several times on here over the last couple of years. The Nijmegen masked helmets surely were combat ready. (and had a lovely shiny finish)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Quite possibly Jurjen, I don't always catch every post. But I've been of the same mind, especially aftes seeing the one mask with multiple stab danage to the eye holes. I doubt that occured in a display, and if it was only a light sports mask, the damage would have been considerably greater.
It is the first time I have seen a report/official link to this though.

[jvrjenivs]

It is the forst time I have seen a report/official link to this though.

It's in the booklet 'Achter het zilveren masker/Hinter der Silbere maske' (Behind the Silver mask), which was published some years ago. They even did some ballista shooting on reconstruction metal plates.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks. Is it in English?

[jvrjenivs]

No, Dutch/German. Adrian has a copy if you want a look inside it