Ostrogothic Kingdom north of the Alps?

[Justin of the New Yorkii]

In the areas that are now Switzerland and Austria, did the Ostrogoth Kingdom of Theodoric have basically the same borders as the old Western Roman provinces? Or were the Alps themselves the border? I'm having a hard time finding anything definitive about this on the internet. On most of the maps I have found it appears that Rhaetia and Noricum were part of the Ostrogoth Kingdom, but I haven't found any sources, primary or secondary, that specifically say so.

Also, what about Marseilles? I have read that it was occupied by the Visigoths, Franks and Ostrogoths at various times, but no specific dates.

[Epictetus]

I think things were a bit fluid. It’s hard to say definitively where the borders existed. Jordanes says that “all Italy at last called Theodoric its lord and the Empire obeyed his nod” (LVII, 294). I think this statement is actually fairly accurate: Italy itself was thoroughly under his command and he exerted varying degrees of influence elsewhere.

By “Italy,” I think we should assume a more modern sense of the area extending far to the north and not the ancient “Italy” with its borders at the Rubicon. We know Theodoric completely controlled the Po Valley and the head of the Adriatic. Theodoric also campaigned in Illyricum, even capturing Sirmium. North of the Alps he exerted some influence with the Burgundians, had a general win a major battle in Gaul and was even involved in Spain and the Vandal’s Africa. Outside of Italy I believe his influence and power varied at different times.

If you are interested in more detail from a primary source, check out Jordanes' Origin and Deeds of the Goths. I think Theodoric’s story starts about LVII, 289.

[Robert Vermaat]

The Rugians, who dominated Noricum, had once supported Odoacar but had been destroyed by him in two battles, after part of the royal family supported Zeno against him. Odacar later deported ('evacuated') the Roman population north of the Alps to Italy, destroying the economic basis for the rmaining Rugians. of course, not every citizens went south, as we know from later Bavaria.

The Rugians then supported Theodoric, who claimed Noricum, but supposedly with the same economic handicap. The Franks then began to control these areas, until they dominate Raetia by 536 and Noricum by 545.

[Justin of the New Yorkii]

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard about the campaign against Sirmium.

If you are interested in more detail from a primary source, check out Jordanes' Origin and Deeds of the Goths. I think Theodoric’s story starts about LVII, 289.

I've been meaning to get a paperback copy of that one. I just started reading Ammianus Marcellinus, I'll have to get to Jordanes next.

[Nicholas Gaukroger]

I've been meaning to get a paperback copy of that one. I just started reading Ammianus Marcellinus, I'll have to get to Jordanes next.

If you do be sure to get Peter Heather's "Goths and Romans" (1991 publishing date) as, IIRC, that includes a quite brilliant analysis of Jordannes and his usefulness as a source on Gothic history.