Vegetius and other Late Roman Sources

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Hi All

Given the debate on the thread "Legionary Officers and NCOs - Late Roman Army (284 - 565 AD)" I thought it might be timely to start this one.

Much of the discussion on the above thread revolves around the descriptions of Vegetius and whether or not these are reliable, being correctly interpreted etc etc. I know precious little about Vegetius and, on consulting my favourite primer (what else?) I find that "Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus was a writer of the Later Roman Empire (and that) (n)othing is known of his life or station beyond what he tells us in his two surviving works." Well, that's as good a start as any. Then one reads on to find that Theodosius may not have been Theodosius the Great and that the Vegetius in a second body of work may not have been the same man who wrote the first. (Me, I reckon it was probably Chris Marlowe or Francis Bacon wrote all of it..... :lol: ).

Anyhow, I'd like to somehow encourage anyone interested to stop what they're doing and read in, on or around this (or these?) Vegetius(Vegetii?) to see if anything previously unremarked, unthought of, etc, bubbles to the surface.

So, at huge personal effort, I've not only skim-read the Wikipedia article on Vegetius but bits of a couple of pages on the Digital Attic site. With these I am going to begin a bibliography on Vegetius which I hope anyone else will feel free to add to. If a reference is online, it'd be great to have a link added. To start with, I'm going to attempt what I think is Harvard style and get better as I know more. Hmmm. OK. Here goes...

[size=150:390976t3]Flavius Vegetius Renatus - a Bibliography[/size]: has moved on to Post of Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[ValentinianVictrix]

The recent translation by Milner is much better than that Clarke translation, but still suffers in parts. I read it in conjunction with M.R. Reeve's Latin version to check phrases and words.

[Robert Vermaat]

Thanks Howard, very good idea.

ELECTRONIC SOURCES

Does anybody know of an English online version which includes book IV on the Roman navy? I'm glad I have Milner, plus there's the Latin versions who usually do include this chapter.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Also

As the "bib" gets bigger, I guess I'll cut it from the older post and paste it into a newer one. If anyone (mods??) has ideas as to how to do this more tidily, please tell. (EDIT: Yes, I'll be adding the Latin texts - and Greek if it comes to that; although it seems I may not understand them for another 3 years. Oh well, somebody else will.)

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

[size=150:2th69wb5]Flavius Vegetius Renatus - a Bibliography[/size]: has moved on to Post of Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Howard / SPC

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Hi

Could I just draw folk's attention to the 2004 Vegetius by Reeve? The blurb states "This edition is the first to be based on a comprehensive investigation of over 200 surviving manuscripts." it has an extensive introduction in English. I didn't check to see if all four books were there.

Cheers

[size=150:2jor6oxb]Flavius Vegetius Renatus - a Bibliography[/size]: has moved on to Post of Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Howard / SPC

[Sean Manning]

Modern print editions are more reliable, but a Latin text of all four books is available at http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/vegetius.html . Glancing over it I haven't spotted any disastrous typos but I don't know how well it has been proofread.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Thanks Shaun

That's one more for the electronic sources.

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Update time

Thought I'd highlight the 1965 reprint of the 1897 Li abrejance de l'ordre de chevalerie. Being in French, this somewhat reduces its readership, although perhaps Paulus Claudius Damianus (Damien) might be a candidate? It might, at first, seem odd to be promoting a 13th-Century poem based on a 13th-Century translation. However, it occurs to me that in the introductions, prefaces and notes I hope would be in the work, there would be considered discussion about particular translations and interpretations. That might well advance understanding Vegetius. There seem to be four recent versions, all in French. If only there were an English or German version for me .

[size=150:a12dgzrh]Flavius Vegetius Renatus - a Bibliography[/size]: has moved on to Post of Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Howard / SPC

[Robert Vermaat]

I came across a source for the Greek/Latin version of Johannes Lydos' de magistratibus , written around the mid-6th century.

This source contains a number of references to the army size, unit size, names and ranks of the earlier Roman army (scroll down to pages 80-81).

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Thanks Robert

I'll research this one and pop it in. As you'll have noted I'm not the fastest "bibliographer" yet, but I will get faster 8) .

For others interested in this thread or any thread dealing with the Late Roman period, please feel free to discuss or point up any source from this period. The main cause is understanding the Roman military of the period, and that involves identifying as many contemporary writers as members feel are useful to that end. The works won't always be treatises either. I remember reading ages ago a member came across some useful military description in a poem (by Jerome? Did he write poems? :oops: )

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[ValentinianVictrix]

Thanks Robert

I'll research this one and pop it in. As you'll have noted I'm not the fastest "bibliographer" yet, but I will get faster 8) .

For others interested in this thread or any thread dealing with the Late Roman period, please feel free to discuss or point up any source from this period. The main cause is understanding the Roman military of the period, and that involves identifying as many contemporary writers as members feel are useful to that end. The works won't always be treatises either. I remember reading ages ago a member came across some useful military description in a poem (by Jerome? Did he write poems? :oops: )

Cheers

Howard / SPC

If you look up my book list on this thread you might find it of some interest to you-

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[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Thanks Adrian!

Very interested .

Would you mind if I pillaged your list, where applicable and, with acknowledgement, incorporated the titles into the Vegetius-and-others list?

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[ValentinianVictrix]

Thanks Adrian!

Very interested .

Would you mind if I pillaged your list, where applicable and, with acknowledgement, incorporated the titles into the Vegetius-and-others list?

Cheers

Howard / SPC

Pillage away Howard!

I've purchased many more books since I originally compiled that list and I'll update it at some stage as some of them are very useful for those studying the Late Roman period.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Thanks Adrian

Preparing to pillage

SPC / Howard