Musculata Images

[Sulla]

I find the curved sword on this one interesting. http://www.flickr.com/photos/timothywat/...otostream/

[Alexand96]

The 'empty' musculata depiction comes from the (originally Greek)custom of raising a 'trophy/tropaeum' on the battlefield, consisting of the enemy leader's arms. A stake would be decorated with the enemy leader's cuirass complete with undergarments - whatever was worn under the armour and tunic included, and then his helmet placed on top of the stake.

Paullus, thanks for the great information. I have read of this type of "battle trophy" depiction originating from Hellenistic times, but completely failed to put two and two together with these images of the empty musculata.

And Sulla, these images are great. Keep 'em coming and hopefully I'll be able to find some useful ones as well.

Alexander

[Magnus]

Maybe Jasper can create an imagebase of musculata?

[Sulla]

Here are some more ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scootzsx/2836253804/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robwallace/4123277196/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robinw77/102531966/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/19178753@N04/3654287724/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gevez32/5065661096/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93051314@N00/1495860715/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hugovk/9001398/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tyna/2221881753/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15010636@N07/3277212621/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/moacirdsp/2715638044/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pea_green/487250368/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emb/2956306938/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotoric/3285453838/

[Sulla]

more...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/archer10/5375512570/ --- I wish they would search rest of the musculata statues for original color. Would be nice to know all the color patterns they used.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25949002@N06/4468245532/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bstorage/1638133450/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/swiv/3506439679/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sabreur/3064448829/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bstorage/4052257246/

[Alexand96]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elissacorsini/1162240877/ - a bronze equestrian statue at the MET in NY. Hellenistic, not necessarily Roman, Hellenistic.

www.flickr.com/photos/lifes__too_short__to__drink__cheap__wine/2920358757/ - musculata with a large "bend" to it

www.flickr.com/photos/roger_ulrich/5037343497/ - Caligula bust; some nice detail around the neckline and with shoulders and so on.

www.flickr.com/photos/elissacorsini/3987908200/ - interesting relief; definitely depicts a rigid, empty musculata

www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/1246407/ - another "bendy" musculata; is that a hinge I see on the left side?

www.flickr.com/photos/roger_ulrich/4025994053/ - Titus; museum of Naples

www.flickr.com/photos/roger_ulrich/4025994971/ - tongue ptruges from the same Titus statue above; are those little hinges connecting tongue ptruges to musculata?

www.flickr.com/photos/29317483@N04/2741012930/ - rather strange example

www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/3272428451/ - another empty musculata that seems to be standing rigidly upright (although at an angle)

www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/7923641/ - admittedly this not a Roman example (Etruscan), but the cuirass is so unique I decided to share it; look at the musculature and the shoulders...strange

www.flickr.com/photos/elissacorsini/4734114361/ - Roman emperor statue at Princeton University museum; notice the hinges

www.flickr.com/photos/elissacorsini/4734114357/ - and the same statue from the front

www.flickr.com/photos/trojannorse/3530934751/ - another musculata used as a stand

www.flickr.com/photos/antiekpubliek/5412343641/ - rather unique statue of an emperor; notice the ptruges run out from under the musculata.

[Sulla]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/libyan_soup/501808942/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/libyan_soup/501847725/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/libyan_soup/501847967/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claudians/812639405/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7481427@N05/2791302240/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23941865@N02/3557208121/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mulazimoglu/3297297879/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathan_moreau/205970269/

[Sulla]

Alexand96 were there supposed to be links with your descriptions. ?

[Alexand96]

Yeah! haha they were all flickr images too...now how on earth did I screw up links??

[Sulla]

Well I just posted mine without any link code and let the forum software add it and it worked fine.

By the way you mention ptruges hinges. I have thought about those hinges or decorations or what ever they are. And on some they kinda look like hinges but on others they look nothing like hinges.

I also have wondered is they were showing how the layers attached. Something like how chainmail was attached to some helmets. http://www.wulflund.com/images_items/pig...rass_3.jpg

[Sulla]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lesliel/117268341/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hangler/108298706/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewie1980/3716634727/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/etep/2881001421/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/akuchling/122958365/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/placeboe/3995598929/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claud...130544530/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claud...130544538/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claud...130544520/

[Sulla]

Some very interesting pictures Alexand96.

[Alexand96]

Yeah, forgot text for my links...so at least they were all there. I just went through a couple of the ones you just posted Sulla - we might have some double posts, but I think I found a couple of unique images that may be of interest.

In regards to the tongue ptruges, I don't really think we can be definitive, even though I think that's what's being suggested, because one hinge doesn't allow them to rotate around in a flexible manner. And yes, many musculata don't even show those little cylindrical looking bumps at all.

Alexander

[Sulla]

Ya I am sure as more people post we will end up with double posts. But that will be OK this thread should still make a handy reference for people.

I agree there is no way to be sure on ptruges . Besides some not showing them. Some have them much much higher than where a hinge would be and then make them very very narrow. So on those they just cant be hinges. But on other statues they look very much like hinges.

ANy way they could be a rolled edge on top of metal plates used for decoration. This would keep them from cutting in the the leather underneath as the person bends over and moves etc.

[Sulla]

A few more...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9549670@N05/4607863839/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/toola/2562043658/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alaskapine/1778253674/