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this is a working progress of a roman pugio,the blade and the handle are in steel c70 tempered,the handle will be silvered and decorated in the top whit bons.
In looking at your Pugio contruction I find that you are using solid handle plates, if I may I would like to make a suggestion.
I think you will find that it will be much more authentic if you use hollow sheet metal handle plates, this is not a difficult thing to do for you have already a solid type plate that can be used to create a tool to make hollow plates.
What you need is a sheet of brass of about 1cm thick then place the solid handle onto it and mark out a shape that can be cut out of the brass sheet. Then with the handle plate just dropping through the shape in the brass plate, you cut thin brass or steel into a T shape and then you can stamp out authentic hollow plates and the Pugio is now not top heavy.
I speak from experience of having made so many Pugio over the years, then when I made such a tool it created such better results.
Brian thank you very much for your suggestion,for me is big honor have suggestion from you because in my opinion you are one of the most important roman armourer.Like you know there are handle in sheet and handle in solid material(bronze,iron,brass)and handle in organic material.in this case I used solid handle but in the future I would like to do like you suggest me.
I hope you don't think that I was being critical it's just that it makes such a difference to the balance of a pugio, in fact at tmes I even make the tang about 1cm wide and then make the inner part of the handle around this in wood with only the centre rivet of the handle and the two hand guard rivets holding everything together.
The best thing to do with one of those solid handles is to make a T shaped piece of bronze 1cm wide by 2cm deep that you can braise onto the back of the handle to be able to punch down onto thin metal over a good former.
I must say thank you so much for you very kind compliments, however now after some 30 years I am trying to go into retirement so I do not do so much of this work now.
Brian all your observations are for me a good occasion for learn from a Magister,in italy unfortunately ther are not person of big experience about construction of roman army like you are so for who like me whant do this kind of work is very difficult find good informations...
Solid iron grip plates are known from the archaeological record. There are some examples in Juergen Obbmann's book shown in cross-section. Providing they are not too thick, yours look perfectly fine.
The vast majority of known pugio grip plates are of solid iron, so there is no need for you to change to the thin embossed type if you do not wish to. Be aware though that solid grip plates are not normally of an even thickness along their lengths. Normally they are thickest at the point of the central expansion and gradually get thinner towards the ends, meaning that they are quite thin at the guard and the top of the pommel expansion. This means that they would not have been nearly as heavy as many modern reconstructions would lead you to believe.
If you did decide to follow Brian's advice and opt for the thin embossed type of grip plates, these should have the same outward profile as solid grip plates would have. I would advise against using copper-alloy for grip plates as I cannot think of a single surviving example of a Roman copper-alloy grip plate (the oft-cited Leuven grip plates are actually solid iron with a thin copper-alloy 'skin'). All of the surviving examples are in thin iron.
Therefore if you did decide to do this, I would follow Brian's very good advice on forming the plates but using thin (0.5-1mm thick) iron or mild steel, which would better replicate the originals.
The other thing I would point out is that surviving handle assemblages show evidence of there having been another layer between the grip plates and the tang. This layer (normally known as the 'organic' layer) was made from an organic material (bone, wood and horn are all known to have been used). Where handle assemblages have survived complete, spaces can always be seen between the grip plates and the tangs, demonstrating where the organic layer (also known as the inner plates) would originally have been.
I hope this helps a bit.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
Shouldn't the central swell have more of an hourglass shape?
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Think of a flat cone being intersected by the ridge of the grip, rather than the ridges stopping at the edge of a flat cylinder. That's how all the originals that I've seen seem to be, at least.
Vale,
Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
No, no evidence that I know of. Lots of pictures of re-enactors with them though.:wink:
Matthew - yes you are correct that they seem generally to have been more the shape you show, although some surviving examples are remarkably crude.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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hock:
