Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is this an Attic helmet?
#1
[attachment=180]ATTICPSUEDO.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=181]Romanhelmetcopy.jpg[/attachment]


I know this is classified as a Cavalry "parade" type helmet but I mean, just look at it, it definately has the characteristics of the quintessential attic helmet so frequently depicted in Roman art but oddly lacking in the archeological record. What do you think? Also does anybody know wether there is any indications that this helmet had a crest?


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
       
Dennis Flynn
Reply
#2
I know what you're saying. I have often thought the same thing.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#3
Too many helmets have been classified as Auxilia cavalry parade helmets while they could as easily be classified as Officer helmets, mounted or unmounted.

It is a problem which has annoyed me for years now.

M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.

Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!

H.J.Vrielink.
Reply
#4
I would agree that these helmets are not necessarily cavalry types too.....

This of course goes back to Russell-Robinson, who classified two helmets of this type, one from the river Saone in France and the other from Guisborough in England as "Cavalry Sports Type I ", ( the one in Dennis' photos)along with a somewhat dis-similar type which shared the elaborate relief decoration. The latter, because of its 'solid ears'( a cavalry helmet characteristic) probably was a cavalry helmet, but the former two helmets have no cheekpieces so it is uncertain if they had 'open' or closed ear-holes. Nor is there any indication that these helmets had masks, that other characteristic of helmets made for the 'Hippika Gymnasia'

Judging by the photos in Russell-Robinson, the river Saone example seems to have attachment loops for a crest just behind the brow ( which looks suspiciously modern) and another low at the rear, though it is difficult to see how a crest would have fitted over the high relief decoration, unless it was raised in some way. The Guisborough example has no traces of a crest visible in photos.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
Reply
#5
Salvete,

You may be interested to know that all cavalry type helmets are referred to by German scholars as "Pseudoattic" with three subgroups - Weiler (all iron), Koblenz-Bubenheim (iron core with bronze sheet) and Guisborough (all bronze).

It is highly likely that the Guisborough type was a cavalry helmet based on (a) a turma inscription on the similar Theilenhofen helmet, (b) connections of several other helmets of this type with cavalry units (e.g the Gerulata helmet), and © the similarities with the earlier subgroups. They are now generally seen as combat helmets (Petculcescu speculates that they belonged to the decurions).

High quality photos of the Chalons helmet from the river Saone are available in the base joconde (http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documentation...r/pres.htm) and it definitely has crest attachment hooks. In fact, the raised detail leaves a space in the middle of the helmet which would be an ideal fit for a crest, a feature share with several other helmets of this type. A feature more difficult to interpret are the two protusions at the back of several helmets of this type, they look like additional fittings for feather or streamers but do not show attachment holes.
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
Reply
#6
Salvete,

Although I believe that it is highly likely that the Guisborough type helmets were indeed cavalry (combat) helmets, we have a growing corpus of helmets of generally Attic shape which freely combine "cavalry" and "infantry" characteristics, in particular the substantial number of helmets of the so-called Weisenau-Guttmann type, the two helmets from Pompeii, the helmet from the Shelby/White collection and a Weisenau-type cheek piece from the collection of Axel Guttmann which has solid ears.
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
Reply
#7
This is interesting!

I have always wondered why these helmets are classified as "parade" and "cavalry" helmets categorigally. Perhaps we should use Occam`s razor here. To me the Theilenhofen helmet for example is a "pseudo-attic" helmet at least. Maybe it is time to reconsider the old classifications and we surely could do with an opus like Christian Miks´s magnum opus on roman swords.
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
Reply
#8
Looking at the blank "brow plate" of the above example, I've often wondered if it might have had painted decoration originally? (Think of the painted work on the Dura Europos shield).

If you have a look at sculptures such as the Paris Praetorian group, there are decorations shown on the brow plates of those helmets. Of course, these are shown in relief although one may wonder also whether they too had originally been painted.
Spurius Papirius Cursor (Howard Russell)
"Life is still worthwhile if you just smile."
(Turner, Parsons, Chaplin)
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Attic Helmet found? Celtic505 1 888 07-20-2020, 09:11 AM
Last Post: jho
  Authenticity Attic Helmet in Museum für Kunst und Gewerbe, Hamburg LorenzoTergestino 10 2,186 04-07-2019, 06:36 PM
Last Post: Nathan Ross
  Roman Use of the Attic Helmet Hugh Fuller 57 18,960 04-10-2013, 12:55 AM
Last Post: Flavivs Aetivs

Forum Jump: