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2nd Thermopylae
#1
Kkairete!

I was wondering why is it that I never heard of any artifacts discovered from the 2nd battle at Thermopylae between Antiochus and the Romans? Or am I missing something?
They discovered a mound on which there are remains from the first battle against the Persians but afaik nothing from the second one.
Would appreciate any input.
Cry \'\'\'\'Havoc\'\'\'\', and let slip the dogs of war
Imad
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#2
Quote:I was wondering why is it that I never heard of any artifacts discovered from the 2nd battle at Thermopylae between Antiochus and the Romans? Or am I missing something?
I think the presence of finds from 480 are the exception, not the absence of the finds from the Syrian War. How many battle fields finds do we really have? Most battles are without remains - Plataea, the battles of Alexander, Cynoscephalae, Cannae, you name it. If there are finds, they are from monuments or tombs (e.g., both Chaeroneas). The victor took away as much bronze and iron as he could - after all, what's the point of winning a battle if you don't loot? The explanandum is, therefore, not Second, but First Thermopylae.

I have two explanations. One, the Persians did not strip the Greek dead, because they were in a hurry. They had September only to break into the Peloponnese; by the end of the month, their navy had to be in a save harbor (in the Argolid, Corinth, and Athens, presumably). So, they marched on as soon as possible.

Two, they were pious men, who acted piously. So they did not bury the dead; although we're not sure that the Achaemenid dynasty was Zoroastrian, it is possible that the Iranians in the army created a kind of dakhmeh - an open air burial, where the bodies would not contaminate sacred earth, fire, or water.

The problem with the second explanation is that it is contradicted by Herodotus. Now I am extremely skeptical about his narrative (there were no survivors - who could he interview? notice he introduces his story with gnomê), but to discard the one major source is a bit too much.

So, I guess the Persians were in a hurry. There may be better explanations.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#3
What are the finds of Thermopylae? As far as i know only some arrowheads and some javelin heads? This has an explanation. The last-stand-hill is a concrete spot in an already small battlefield. We know the weather was generally rainy that period,which mean soft ground. And we know that the last dozens or hundrets of the greeks were all killed by a barage of missiles,which would have probably planted themselves into the soft ground. All this actually supports the account of Herodotus.
Have there been any bones or weapons found at all? Interestingly there have been found bones,weapons and arrowheads at Marathon!
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
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#4
The battle of Antiochus III against the Romans wasn't the second battle either, since the Greeks made a stand against the Galatians at Thermopylae in 279 which should have yielded evidence as well, and there may have been others also.
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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#5
Quote:The battle of Antiochus III against the Romans wasn't the second battle either, since the Greeks made a stand against the Galatians at Thermopylae in 279 which should have yielded evidence as well, and there may have been others also.

Thermopylae had definately been the site of battles prior to 480bc and at least four recorded battles after 480 (353bc, 279bc, 191bc, 267 ad) Two more in modern times (1821, 1941).
_____________________________________________________
Mark Hayes

"The men who once dwelled beneath the crags of Mt Helicon, the broad land of Thespiae now boasts of their courage"
Philiades

"So now I meet my doom. Let me at least sell my life dearly and have a not inglorius end, after some feat of arms that shall come to the ears of generations still unborn"
Hektor, the Iliad
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#6
There was another battle there ... in 2002 ... when me and my missus fell out!

I wanted to stay there all day - but ended up beating a hasty retreat :wink: She got her way and I guess we were there for only about an hour Sad However, I will return one day (now I am divorced) and spend as much time as I bloody well like! :grin:

Ditto the field of Waterloo (also possesses a large mound) 8)
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#7
Quote:Thermopylae had definately been the site of battles prior to 480bc and at least four recorded battles after 480 (353bc, 279bc, 191bc, 267 ad) Two more in modern times (1821, 1941).
Herodotus mentions a battle between the Phocians and the Thessalians in c.500. In 323, the Greek liberators (Leosthenes etc.) warded off a Macedonian attack, and laid siege to the Macedonians in Lamia. n 146, Quintus Caecilius Metellus fought himself a way across Thermopylae against a coalition of Achaeans, Boeotians, and Chalcidians.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#8
Quote:Ditto the field of Waterloo (also possesses a large mound) 8)
Did your ex-wife defeat you there as well? ;-)
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#9
Quote:
Dithyrambus post=286889 Wrote:Thermopylae had definately been the site of battles prior to 480bc and at least four recorded battles after 480 (353bc, 279bc, 191bc, 267 ad) Two more in modern times (1821, 1941).
Herodotus mentions a battle between the Phocians and the Thessalians in c.500. In 323, the Greek liberators (Leosthenes etc.) warded off a Macedonian attack, and laid siege to the Macedonians in Lamia. n 146, Quintus Caecilius Metellus fought himself a way across Thermopylae against a coalition of Achaeans, Boeotians, and Chalcidians.

Thanks Jona, I thought I had read of a battle previous to 480 (could'nt remember the source) Given the number of conflicts fought at the site, one would assume it to be a treasure trove of artifacts.
_____________________________________________________
Mark Hayes

"The men who once dwelled beneath the crags of Mt Helicon, the broad land of Thespiae now boasts of their courage"
Philiades

"So now I meet my doom. Let me at least sell my life dearly and have a not inglorius end, after some feat of arms that shall come to the ears of generations still unborn"
Hektor, the Iliad
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#10
Quote:
Ghostmojo post=286913 Wrote:Ditto the field of Waterloo (also possesses a large mound) 8)
Did your ex-wife defeat you there as well? ;-)

Nope - she's buried under it!!!:wink:
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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