Egyptians in the New World?

[ruski94]

Thor Heyerdahl, a Norwegian ethnographer and adventurer, proved with the Ra II, a ship that he and several others modeled after drawings and models from Ancient Egypt, that it could have been possible for the Ancient Egyptians to cross the Atlantic from Morocco to Barbados by sailing with the Canary Current.
Although most of his findings and experiments, including this one, weren't accepted in the scientific community does anyone believe this could have been a possibility? Also, even though other members of the forum already discussed the possibility of Romans discovering the New World, does this help prove that they also could have made the journey across?
Any feedback is welcomed.
all the information that I based this on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Heyerdahl

[Jona Lendering]

does anyone believe this could have been a possibility?

The problem is that what is possible is not necessarily real. The Greeks and Romans might have created a steam engine; in fact, they built some small machines, but they never realized its potential, even though they might have done so.

What we need is evidence, direct or indirect. Direct evidence would be an Egyptian wreck off the Mexican coast; indirect evidence might be a find from the Old World from a well-published excavation.

As it happens, there is one small terracotta that was found in an official excavation. At least one ship must have made the trip; whether the sailors were still alive when they arrived, is not known.

A final question, of course is: does it matter? There used to be an age in which pyramids in Mexico were believed to be influenced by Egyptian models. This way to explain cultural similarities, called diffusionism, is founded on a very pessimistic view on mankind: it could invent things only once - twice inventing the same thing independently, was considered to be impossible. I think diffusionism is now dead.

[ruski94]

I have a different question, do you think i could use this as a basis for an AH novel?

[Jona Lendering]

I have a different question, do you think i could use this as a basis for an AH novel?

If it's possible, it's possible. The story is more likely, though, when your Egyptians arrive over there by accident, more dead than alive, than when they set out on purpose.

[M. Demetrius]

The story is more likely, though, when your Egyptians arrive over there by accident, more dead than alive, than when they set out on purpose

I have to agree with that concept. To set out on purpose, you would have to have purpose, and some kind of knowledge of what your were expecting to find. The story would need a reason better than "Let's see what's out there, engage!" to set sail on a voyage of unknown length (as far as they knew, the sea simply went on forever...) and some expectation of being able to get home with some kind of treasure, technology, or whatever.

Now a storm that blew them out of sight of land and into the deep blue, perhaps like one of the hurricane types that start in West Africa and end up in Brazil or Cuba, now that makes sense. If it became a hurricane, of course, those boats just wouldn't have held up and they would never have made it across alive. A lesser tropical depression would be plausible. Rainwater is drinkable, but it would get pretty old to be inside a storm for the entire crossing.

[silly] And in Brazil, there is the legend of the Bay of Jugs...the amphorae that the legend-tellers say are scattered on the bottom of the bay, but covered up by the Brazilian government for who knows what real reason...perhaps the Roman galley was following a papyrus scroll from an Egyptian library, or

wait for it


The Ancient Aliens obviously gave them a route map and a navigation system to find their way across, along with seawater distillation equipment so they could have water on the weeks or months-long voyage. There. All problems solved. 8) :lol: [/silly]

It could make a story, please ignore the silly comments above.

[ruski94]

I'm actually planning on writing about the Romans arriving to the New World. The setting is that either Emperor Hadrian or Trajan sends a large commercial fleet down to morocco to help build up one of the colonias. As the fleet arrives near the coast the ships are swept by the Canary Current, sending them to Barbados.

[Jona Lendering]

That script certainly makes sense.

[ruski94]

My one problem is that I'm not sure what kind of people would be on that fleet..Would any of you know?

[jkaler48]

Interesting there is identical ancient pottery in Japan and a part of Chile very good evidence of a least one potter getting to Chile from Japan somehow in ancient times. It is probably likely that
occasional people did get across the oceans but not enough for any kind of regular trade or a great deal of extensive cultural exchange that some would like to believe in.

[ruski94]

Also, does anyone know or can estimate the year in which some of the roman colonias in west africa began to be constructed?

[Sean Manning]

Thor Heyerdahl, a Norwegian ethnographer and adventurer, proved with the Ra II, a ship that he and several others modeled after drawings and models from Ancient Egypt, that it could have been possible for the Ancient Egyptians to cross the Atlantic from Morocco to Barbados by sailing with the Canary Current.
Although most of his findings and experiments, including this one, weren't accepted in the scientific community does anyone believe this could have been a possibility? Also, even though other members of the forum already discussed the possibility of Romans discovering the New World, does this help prove that they also could have made the journey across?
Any feedback is welcomed.
all the information that I based this on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Heyerdahl

As Jona says, we have to be careful about things which are possible but which have noevidence for them. But I'm not certain Ra II proved what he thought was possible was possible.

People who I respect have told me that the right type of reeds to make a boat don't (and didn't) grow in northwest Africa (Heyerdahl had to truck his from Lake Chad or boat it in from Bolivia and launched from Morocco). Reed boats suffer from waterlogging over time, and wear out from wave action on open water, so its unlikely that a boat launched in Egypt could have made the crossing.

[Nathan Ross]

Also, does anyone know or can estimate the year in which some of the roman colonias in west africa began to be constructed?

Augustus founded twelve coloniae in Mauretania in the decade or so after Actium (31BC), using discharged veterans from the civil wars. One of them, Banasa, was later refounded by Marcus Aurelius in the mid-second century as Colonia Aurelia Banasa. If you're writing fiction, I'm sure you could have another town, real or imaginary, similarly founded or refounded by Trajan (say) as Colonia Ulpia Rutubis or something.

Roman 'Africa', by the way, referred only to modern Tunisia, not the continent as a whole :wink:

Here's a helpfully detailed map of Roman Mauretania Tingitana: Mauretania Map

My one problem is that I'm not sure what kind of people would be on that fleet..Would any of you know?

Colonia were usually settled by discharged soldiers - veterans of over 25 years service. They would be accompanied by their wives (both official and otherwise) and families, plus probably the usual traders, slaves and assorted other 'camp followers' who hung around legions, and might have formed close links with the veterans during their years of service.

Trouble is, such a group probably wouldn't be sent out in a fleet, like the Pilgrim Fathers - soldiers preferred to march by land if they could. Atlantic navigation was a difficult business, and sea journeys were kept as short as possible, especially outside the Mediterranean. Any ship travelling west to Mauretania would have landed on the north (Mediterranean) coast - or if it did pass through the straits into the Atlantic, would have kept close to the coast as it travelled south. Not so much opportunity for being caught up in currents and carried hundreds of miles westwards!

Possibly a ship, or ships, could have carried settlers from Gaul, or even Britain, although the Bay of Biscay was always hazardous to shipping. Since this is fiction, though... the (in)famous ninth legion vanished from Britain around the beginning of Hadrian's reign - maybe you could have a body of veterans from that legion sent by ship to establish a new colony on the southern Mauretanian coast (to help Romanize it after the revolt there in c117 perhaps?)... mile:

[ruski94]

is there any reason that i could use as an excuse for a medium-sized fleet to travel far enough from the moroccan coast to be dragged off by the current?

[Sean Manning]

I think that Punic, Greek, and Roman timidity as seafarers is often exaggerated. The Greeks spent more time hearing the Odyssey than Hesiod's rants; and when Ballard, Oleson, et al. explored Skerki Bank they found 5 Roman shipwrecks in deep water (the bank is on the direct sea route from Ostia to Carthage that some writers allude to; its also on a natural route from Hispania and the Straits to the east). I'm not so well informed on the Atlantic, but there must have been a significant amount of trade (the Venetii wouldn't have needed those big, tall-sided ships with strong oak hulls if they weren't sailing somewhere!)

[ruski94]

So what your saying is that Roman fleets would actually sail farther of coast even though Nathan said that they stuck close to the coast?