By The Sword - Spatha

[StephenCurtin]

Hi everyone hopefuly somebody here will be able to help me I was looking at By The Swords website and I came across this spatha

www.bytheswordinc.com/p-3651-roman-gladius-gh0213.aspx

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if the hilt on this piece is based on an original spatha or is it just speculative? Thanks in advance.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

I honesty couldn't be 100% but I've seen many spatha swords and....this just doesn't look like it's been based of an original at all. First of, thew spiral isn't ( I am sure isn't) authentic, secondly, any wooden handles like that haven't been found to my knowledge, never seen anything like it except on 100% fakes. I would not trust 99% of the manufacturers out there to make me an authentic sword. I would trust sites suggested by Legio XX's site, and anyone who is a faithful reenactor. Matt Lukes is famous, but for price, might as well ask. Go to http://www.larp.com/legioxx/supplrs.html and have a look at their suppliers, find an item and post for an opinion of it again. But what you just showed me? Nawww, sowwy

Good luck, Sam

[Sempronius]

Go for Albion's Spatha. Yes it's over $750 but it looks incredible.

[StephenCurtin]

Thanks gents for the replies. I was thinking that this hilt is probably speculative, though I do think that hilts like this one were possibly used, there just isn't any evidence for it yet AFAIK. I say this because many later spathae have tangs too short to allow for the classic globular pommel, and semi-globular guard, so a flatter hilt would have been used instead. There have been hilts similar to this one found in various Scandinavian bogs, but these have clearly been decorated to suit local tastes so it is impossible to know if their shape had also been modified. I would agree that Albion probably make the best production spathae on the market, but I'm not actually looking to buy anything, this hilt simply caught my eye, and I wanted to know if it had any historical basis.

[Doc]

As Sam pointed out, Matt Lukes is the way to go. He is on this forum under the Marketplace section. Have a look at his work. The work Lukes puts out is some of the best if not the best out there, IMHO.

However, if you go custom with any armorer, they are much more expensive and waiting periods could be up to 1 year for an item.

If you want to buy off the shelf, then you could contact Peroni on this forum in the Marketplace section. His place is called Armamentaria and is located in England. He has a really nice website with many items.

The sword you show is typical of another junk piece that many would purchase and that continue to proliferate throughout. It is good that you asked here first.

[Doc]

I just noticed the price hock: since I looked at the blade at first.

They call this a Roman gladius which means it is not a spatha. Although both are swords they are not under the same classification.

Eitherway, for the price that piece is ridiculous.

Aside from the spiral grip, the blade shape is wrong for a gladius. Wooden grips have been found but were less common than bone grips.

Albion makes a good spatha but Matt Lukes' are superior in overall quality and accuracy IMHO.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

My sword handle is a solid piece of mahogany. I had the choice between a fully solid, or laminated, and I under my dad's influence chose laminated. It's still 100% mahogany but is sheeted together. This is to prevent cracks over time which is a plus if you don't want the handle ruined, but then, it's not NATURALLY solid. If this makes it unattractive, please let me know, I'm worrying about it too much. I'm not done yet with it, I have to shape the back guard, the more ball shaped part ( forgot name) , so it'll look a LOT nicer! anyway, now I have a work table I am gonna sometime make another sword, any beautiful suggestions? and make it in weeks!!! Production line BABy!!! mwahaha

So yeah, now u know about the handle buddy, so if you're looking for one, contact a pro!

Regards..


Sam

[jvrjenivs]

Well, indeed don't buy this sword. It's a waste of money, if you're looking for a roman sword.

As suggested above, Matt Lukes makes wonderful swords, as does Mark Morrow (Canada and USA). In Europe there are several good swordsmiths also, like Robert Wimmers, Paul Binns, Erik Konig, Hephestus, Rvsticus_signifer and others. It's just what do you wanna pay for it, and what do you wanna get. Albion swords are very nicely made, but I regard them quite expensive for a blade that is made by grinding.

As for handles, I think the question has to be asked which period you're interested in. For an early spatha, I would suggest you a whole wooden handle (if you're not folowing one particular example that is), for later ones bone, (mock)ivory and antler will do as well. But then whole handle construction in one material. (see the examples from Aalen, Cologne, etc).

[Doc]

Well said Jurjen.

[StephenCurtin]

Hi guys, thanks again for all the replies, though as I said above I'm not actually looking to buy anything at the moment, and even if I was I definately wouldn't buy this piece, it just looks kinda cheap to me. I will however keep the suggested names in mind for when I do decide to buy a spatha so thanks. I merely asked about this hilt type out of curiousity, because to me it resembles some of the hilts found in bogs like Illerup Adal or Nydam, but without the metal components, which were probably a local addition. So as for what time period I was thinking of, I was thinking maybe 4th or 5th century. Also are you guys sure that the spiral grip part is inaccurate, because I thought that I'd seen an at least one example in a pic from a museum on another thread on this forum.

[Doc]

I have seen a spiral grip now that you mention it on that website Romancoins....I think since I cannot say for sure.

[Theodosius the Great]

There are two 3rd century examples of spatha spiral grips shown in Roman Military Equipment (2nd edition) on page 157. Neither pattern are identical to the replica from By The Sword but are somewhat similar.

~Theo

[Nathan Ross]

I have seen a spiral grip now that you mention it on that website Romancoins....I think since I cannot say for sure.

A lot more subtle than the repro one above though!

The ones from Bishop & Coulston that Theo mentioned are also on the same site (Romancoins):



Again, certainly spirals but the similarity ends there.

[Doc]

Thanks Nathan.

That is the one I was thinking about although there is another where the grip looks like a silver colored metal. I do not know what it is made of.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Here´s an other excellent swordsmith. He´s also an expert in metallurgy.
XorX