AD340 England

[InsulaVecta]

Hi guys, have been looking into getting started, we are going to be working with a local Roman Villa on the south coast of England, portraying it's decline in the mid 4th century, as raiders became more commonplace. We are looking at portraying a mixed bunch of defenders in skirmishing with another group who will portray (possibly jutish? more research needed) raiders. As our site is a backwater I am thinking a mix of Roman Citizens both with military backgrounds and without. Would slaves have taken up arms too?

Before you jump on me we will be closely consulting with the villa for more detailed history and this is just the start of my research!

Somewht confused on dress and armour for this period- early research indicated riveted maille but have been told leather armour was more common! Any good guides would be welcome!

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Hello, nice project indeed

About the leather armour, I dont know who told you but they are gravely mistaken.
Leather armour was not used in the 4th century, the armour was made of metal.

The fourth century was one of crisis, especially the attacks of the Saxons and Irish were a menace. more here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#4th_century

There are a few good books on this period and armour wise the late Romans on this site can help you along quite well. It might even be handy to get in touch with some of the re-enactors themselves if you want to have proper footage in stead of some extras wearing the wrong stuff, something we see all too often in the motion pictures industry.

M.VIB.M.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Jim,

Nice project indeed!

Two things:

1) AD 340 England is an anachronism. it's AD430 Britain, as 'England' would not exist for a long time to come.
2) Why a villa? There are more of these, and personally I find a villa a bit dull. It's essentially a farm, with very luxurious living quarters. Most reconstructed villae do not have any 'living gear' such as furniture, etc., nor the trappings that come with a farm, which makes them nice but not thrilling.

Why not go for a temple? First, these can be set up smaller than a villa, but you can add all kind of buildings. The Nettleton temple complex for instance is made up of 8 or so building. Secondly, temples tell a fascinating story of how the people lived, much more than a villa can, with all the splendour attached that you want to put in it.

[Vindex]

Sounds like a very good idea for a project to me. (And Robert, although I agree with the England bit, Jim did say AD340 not t'other way round!)

Are you down near Chichester by any chance? A colleague at work has been helping with the voluntary excavations on a villa there this summer.

[Medicus matt]

Jim, have PM'd you.
Robert, get your eyes tested....and I suspect he's going with the 'villa impression' because it's an excavated villa site that's giving him somewhere to play.

My money's on Bignor.

[Caballo]

Very interesting project. And as the posts above say, steer away from leather armour!
And worth reading up on the period - it actually was quite a prosperous period with a lot of rather smart villas being built. Raids happened, but there had always been raids, and the classis Brittannica was pretty strong. I'd advise not recreating with the benefit of hindsight- in 340 ad, few would have thought that in under a hundred years, the empire would be reeling. Peter Heathers and Bryan Ward- Perkins books are well worth a read btw.

[Robert Vermaat]

And Robert, although I agree with the England bit, Jim did say AD340 not t'other way round!

Agreed! T'was a typo (probabbly 'cause I'm a 5th c. fan..). :oops:

[Medicus matt]

I agree with the England bit

It's a mistake that peter Ackroyd has made in his new 'History of England'; referring throughout the chapter on Roman Britain to the 'English' being slaughtered by the incoming 'Saxons'.

Cross, it made me....very, very cross.

[Ealdorman]

Whilst not my area of expertise Caballo (Paul) makes a valid point; these are times of relative peace and prosperity for Southern Britain as indicated by the number of villas either ‘springing-up’ or being extended across Sussex and Hampshire. This is a subject that is more Matt’s area and I am sure he will be able to provide you with suitable research sources. 8)

We do know that during the late 3rd century (270ish?) the litus Saxonicum or Saxon Shore was established. Obstensively it is a military command of the late Empire, consisting of a series of fortifications on both sides of the Channel with the closest forts being at Anderitum, the modern day Pevensey Castle in Essex Sussex, which was garrisoned by the Numerus Abulcorum and Portus Adurni, modern day Portchester in Hampshire which, in turn, was garrisoned by Numerus Exploratorum.

The only contemporary reference we possess that mentions the name "Saxon Shore" comes in the late-4th century Notitia Dignitatum, which lists its commander, the Comes Litoris Saxonici per Britanniam or the Count of the Saxon Shore. There is a lot of debate about the purpose of the forts ranging from them being there to deal with ‘Saxon’ raiders to them either actually being manned by Saxons or the ‘shore’ being settled by Saxons. Again as I said I am not an expert on this time period so I am sure others on these forums who are better equipped than I will be able to clarify things and point you in the right direction.

If we are to give any credence to the writings of Bede then Sussex was settled by Saxons in the late 5th C and not Jutes who are supposed to have settled in ‘Kent, on the Isle of Wight and the mainland opposite’, modern day southern Hampshire.

If Matt’s guess is correct and it is the Bignor Villa site you are referring to then you might want to have a look at the Chichester Excavations Series Edited by Alex Down, the Sussex Archaeological Collections (annual series from 1848, published by the Sussex Archaeological Society) and the work done by Chichester and District Archaeology Society on Warblington Roman villa under the leadership of David Rudkin. You might even want to try and contact Chichester University where Dr Amanda Richardson may be able to help on historical background for the area. On this type of thing it is going to be the library that is your friend I’m afraid and not the internet; although your fellow forumites here will help to clarify things for you and make sure that your are heading in the right direction. ;-)

[Crispvs]

Interesting to hear about the villas. Most of the villas I have visited show evidence of the nicer parts of the houses (and bathhouses sometimes as well) being used for industrial purposes in the fourth century, which has led people to conclude that the moneyed class had moved into safe walled towns and turned their nice rural houses over to activities like smithing and brewing (or 'corn drying' if you like), which has often left great burnt holes full of slag right in the centres of formerly beautiful mosaics. As has been said above, there were many times of crisis in the fourth century, which may be the reason for there being so many buried hoards of fourth century AD coins and fine precious metal objects. Am I being old fashioned in my thinking here?

Crispvs

[Ealdorman]

As I said in my previous post this is not my area of expertise but whilst there is evidence of decline on some sites there is contrary evidence of continued growth on others during various phases of the 4th C; it would appear that even the experts have differing opinions on the timeframes and causes.

There are a large number of villa sites around West Sussex, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight. Fishbourne was built somewhere around 94AD and flourished only to decline sharply following a catastrophic fire that appears to have started during renovation work in the 270s. Rockbourne would appear to have survived longer with part of the north wing being rebuilt in the early to mid 4th C when the associated bathhouse was remodelled then somewhere around the mid 4th C the bath suite in the western range was enlarged and the bathhouse in the north wing taken out of use. Brading on the IoW was apparently subject to a disastrous fire sometime in the late 3rd C but continued to be used for farming for, the experts tell us, another 100 years or so. During this time a stoke hole was dug through a mosaic in one of the corridors in the main house for a corn dryer. Newport on the IoW was built somewhere around 280 but I have no idea when it went out of use. Bignor itself was originally constructed around the mid 3rd C and consisted of a stone building with 4 rooms; it was extended in stages and in its final form consisted of 65 rooms around a central courtyard. The last phase in the mid to late 4th C added to the north wing where some of the finest mosaics are located and appears to have then had a slow decline and did not experience the same kind of ‘catastrophe’ that befell either Fishbourne or Brading.

We have the site at Dunkirt Barn, Abbots Ann originally dug in 1854 and then looked at again in 2005, the site at Liss excavated in 2006, the site at Warblington excavated between 2008 and 2010 as well as the entire gable end from a stone barn associated in a villa at Soberton that is now in the BM and for none of these sites do we have published dig reports let-alone any real interpretation of their context and chronology.

Is the demise of these villas due to ‘accidents’ such as the fires at Brading and Fishbourne, the result of economic stress as the ‘empire’ turns in on itself or do they fall victim to the bogey-man that is the ‘barbarian’ raids by ‘Saxon pirates’?

There are others on this forum who are hopefully better placed than I to provide some of the answers but I personally feel we should beware making ‘one size fit all’.