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Scale (repoussé) Pectorale
#16
humm, now you are asking an old man to remember his sources ... I seem to recall I did them upside down because I saw a grave stele with them on that way, but it was before the days of digital media. I will start the hunt and dig about as I'd like to try and find it for you, but it was about 12 years ago now.

I will do my best

Graham
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#17
Quote:humm, now you are asking an old man to remember his sources ...

No Graham, don't bother.
Just want to know why they would made scale armour facing upwards.
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#18
phew thanks, I will continue to try on the back burner though.

I think that the scales are upside down though as a stabbing thrust would generally glance up and away as opposed to down and in, mostly due to the way the body tends to pivot up and away when struck in the chest and the chest's slight glacis. If the scales were the other way round I would have thought that you would probably stand a good chance of snagging the attacking thrust and guiding in under the scales? Just my two pennies worth :-D

All the best

Graham
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#19
Of course, if it were done in repousse' it wouldn't matter which way the "scales" pointed. But the photo shown earlier, if accurately made, certainly shows them pointing up.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#20
This is getting away from the subject, but in the past we've discussed upward-overlapping segments on manicae as making more sense than the downward-overlapping segments of a lorica segmentata, especially in a gladiatorial context where the only weapon to be concerned with is a gladius coming straight at you from in front. The same would be true for scales. Incidentally, though it's from a television production and out of period at that, a character in "Spartacus: Blood and Sand" wears a manica with upward-overlapping scales.
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#21
Quote:phew thanks, I will continue to try on the back burner though.

I think that the scales are upside down though as a stabbing thrust would generally glance up and away as opposed to down and in, mostly due to the way the body tends to pivot up and away when struck in the chest and the chest's slight glacis. If the scales were the other way round I would have thought that you would probably stand a good chance of snagging the attacking thrust and guiding in under the scales? Just my two pennies worth :-D

All the best

Graham

Hi Graham, nice to hear from you :grin: one of those who is hands on, not an armchair Gladiator like me :wink:

In general reference to the "upside down scales" wouldn't a Gladiator be very likely to receive stabbing moves downward over the shield thus negating any glancing effect the scales may have and as you say snag or guide in. Embossing on the other hand would stop any further downward movement of the stab?
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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#22
Gashford wrote:
Quote:I think that the scales are upside down though as a stabbing thrust would generally glance up and away as opposed to down and in

That would explain the upside down position.

Conal wrote:
Quote:In general reference to the "upside down scales" wouldn't a Gladiator be very likely to receive stabbing moves downward over the shield thus negating any glancing effect the scales may have and as you say snag or guide in.

Don't know Conal, I'm not a gladiator :wink:

Quote:Embossing on the other hand would stop any further downward movement of the stab?

Ok, but why would you do the embossing upside down :roll:
And look at the Stabian Gate gladiatorial relief from Pompeii, a solid pectoral that wide , like Gashford pointed out, would serious restrict moving your arms across your chest.
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#23
Tried some embossing yesterday.
I used this picture as an example
[attachment=2101]IMG_5391.jpg[/attachment]
I only had one chisel and two round punches.
I need to make some more and buy me some pitch to hold down the sheet.

It looks like a boxer with toothache and the last hit pierced his nose :mrgreen:
[attachment=2102]IMG_5944.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=2103]IMG_5946.jpg[/attachment]


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TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#24
For a first go at embossing you have done brilliantly- well done.
I accede to the idea of the embossed plate but would loke to remind people that bronze scale was found at Pompei and a search through Ars dimicandi's photos will show you their repro. My scanners not working so cannot show you the source or the repro photos taken by Matt Bryant in Itally last year.

regards
Richard
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#25
Richard wrote:
Quote:For a first go at embossing you have done brilliantly- well done.
I accede to the idea of the embossed plate but would loke to remind people that bronze scale was found at Pompei

Thanks Richard, I start to like this embossing...
Maybe I should make a scaled and a solid one 8)
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#26
We may be making too much of the defensive qualities of gladiatorial armor. It was primarily theatrical, to make for a better show. After all, the gladiators were supposed to get killed. The manica and helmet were there to keep the fight from ending too quickly, but the rest was mainly to be showy and make the fighters look fiercer and more heroic.
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