Tombstones

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

[quote="mcbishop" post=305724] .

Brian - I think it is the representation of the horse's muscles (or fat, actually!) if you compare the banding round the horse's neck to that above the off fore leg.

Yep, looks like this horse had a bad case of "Caesar Neck"!!

[PhilusEstilius]

I'm not so sure about the horses muscles or fat in fact the lines on the neck give the idea of not so much a crinet but leather straps, the lines below the chest band do look like leather also. In fact these lines are so very neatly put in by the sculptor that I think this is what he is showing us.

[mcbishop]

I'm not so sure about the horses muscles or fat in fact the lines on the neck give the idea of not so much a crinet but leather straps, the lines below the chest band do look like leather also. In fact these lines are so very neatly put in by the sculptor that I think this is what he is showing us.

Checked my notes, Brian, and there are no straps around the neck. It's just a lardy horse ;-)

Mike Bishop

[Graham Sumner]

Mike Bishop wrote:
In case anyone wonders what the lump is in the foreground, it isn't a diminutive cowering dalek instead of the usual tawdry barbarian, but rather a plinth to support the missing foot. He clearly had issues with carving feet in the round too...



Then again........... it could be a Dalek in a transolar disc! :-D Now, what a scenario that would make! After all Dr Who himself said the Romans were the most powerful military machine in the universe.

Graham.

[caiusbeerquitius]

It could be? No, no. I just checked very carefully, and compared my notes. It actually IS a Dalek.

[mcbishop]

It actually IS a Dalek.

:lol:

Mike Bishop

[PhilusEstilius]

Mike.
Where you say that you have checked your notes and there are no straps around the neck and you consider this to be a lardy or fat type of horse I have to ask are these notes your own opinion. For those lines most certainly look to be just a bit to symetrical to be fat of any kind and then the muscles of a horses neck tend to be the same as any other animal where they are aligned along the neck and not across it.

[Vindex]

First photo - a bit extreme as the head is titled.

To be fair, the crest on a stallion (which this horse clearly is) can look like added fat and folds the same way when the head is down and in...(second picture)

By the bye the second photo is a PRE (or Andalusian) horse, the first a Friesian; both, in my book, candidates for Roman horses in their earlier evolution although the Friesian can only really go back to 13th C in some interations.

Sorry...strayed off topic....

[mcbishop]

I have to ask are these notes your own opinion. For those lines most certainly look to be just a bit to symetrical to be fat of any kind and then the muscles of a horses neck tend to be the same as any other animal where they are aligned along the neck and not across it.

Not quite sure what you are getting at here Brian. :? Yes, my notes are my opinion derived from inspecting the stone close-up at first hand (this is ultimately the only way to judge a piece of sculpture). There was no question in my mind that these marks could be intended to be straps. Look at the style of execution: straps on the horse harness (such as the throatlatch, passing beneath the jaw right next to the throat lines) are shown with crisp edges, in quite high relief. These marks, on the other hand, are profiled to suggest folds in the horse's flesh. They are not top-quality work, but there is no doubt in my mind that that is what is represented. I have fondled enough Roman tombstones in my life to feel confident of that assertion.

Mike Bishop

[attachment=2847]throat.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=2848]breast.jpg[/attachment]

[D B Campbell]

It's just a lardy horse ;-)

I like the idea that, not only are we seeing what Vonatorix looked like, but we're seeing his own horse -- not a generic "tombstone" horse, but a real (slightly overweight) creature. Brilliant!

[PhilusEstilius]

Mike.
I have to thank you for the much more detailed pictures of the neck of the horse which I have to say does give one a bit better idea of just what the workmanship is telling us, even with the enlarged Flickr view it does not come out so well however now I can understand that bit better.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Nope, can't go any smaller or will be riding a donkey...

JC on a donkey -- yep, I could see that. :wink: (Oops, I'm supposed to be keeping my OT frivolity to a minimum.)

Yes, I can see JC on a donkey....but GJC requires a suitable warhorse!

@Brian...see I told you it was a bad case of Caesar Neck!

[D B Campbell]

:lol: (Where's the "Like" button when you need one?)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

First photo - a bit extreme as the head is titled.

To be fair, the crest on a stallion (which this horse clearly is) can look like added fat and folds the same way when the head is down and in...(second picture)

By the bye the second photo is a PRE (or Andalusian) horse, the first a Friesian; both, in my book, candidates for Roman horses in their earlier evolution although the Friesian can only really go back to 13th C in some interations.

Sorry...strayed off topic....

I'll go for the first one, I think! Much like a horse called Ted I rode last, as stable as an aircraft carrier at the canter! 8-)

[mcbishop]

an aircraft carrier at the canter! 8-)

Delightful image. And here's another one: C. Annius Salutus, poster-child of all manica fans. Possibly the earliest depiction of an armguard in a military context (inscription cognoscenti will note his name is in the nominative case, without a Dis Manibus, and that XXII Primigenia were at Mainz from the pre-Flavian period onwards).

And if you can't see the armguard, don't blame me, you probably aren't squinting in just the right way.



Mike Bishop