Cavalry Tunic with woven belt pictures

[Cheyenne]

I made this for Cesar Pocina before Christmas and thought I'd post some pics here. The colour is achieved by mixing madder with oak bark to give it a more deeper red colour. It was given this colour to reflect the clothing of a middle status cavalryman. It is 2/2 herringbone twill.

The cuffs are decorated with a 3/1 twill and the matching belt is also a 3/1 twill with a slight variation on the pattern. All yarn is dyed with two colours of madder.

The seams are hand stitched with roll and running stitch and the side seams, as can be seen in the close up is a roll stitch and blanket stitch at 2mm intervals. This was a lot of work!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Me thinks you have sold the Emperor new clothes, Claire!
Translated meaning, I can't see the picture! :-|

EDIT: I can now! That is great! The colour looks just right!

[Quinthalas]

Very nice work

[Vindex]

The amount of work is clearly seen in the quality. Lucky Cesar is all I can say!

[garrelt]

Looks good Claire

Only have 2 questions:
1 Why do you call it a cavalry tunic?
The sideslits do help when riding but a normal broadtunic or tunic without sideslits isn't uncomfortable for riding either.

2 What is the origin of the pattern used for the cufs and belt?
To me the pattern looks eihter Early Ironage (Hallstadt) or Early Medieval (Anglo-Saxon/Viking).

[Caivs Marivs Scipio]

Looks nice Claire!

I guess it's for a Late Roman tunic?

[jvrjenivs]

No, not late Roman and the tablet pattern is said to have an equine context.
See an earlier post of Claire about the topic:

I had a lot of trouble finding some good provenanced examples of woven edging which would be authentic enough to reflect the weave types of the late iron age (1st century bc) that could transition easily into the 1st century ad. I found some information by some of the researcher of the hochdorf tablet weaves (Raeder-Knudsen 2004, 2005, 2010) and drew upon some of the accounts of other late iron age finds from Denmark and Austria about the idea that a 3/1 twill with three colours used as a majority standard could be transferred into the clothing used by middle/middle high ranking early Equites. It is thought from the surviving examples of these tunics (such as the Danish example made from 4 pieces, 1 for the arms, two for front and back and two for the sides), that they were cuff finished with 3/1 twill bands. I have attached a picture of the resulting pattern from one of these 3/1 twill descriptions.


[attachment=1959]File0002.jpg[/attachment]

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Looks nice Claire!

I guess it's for a Late Roman tunic?

I can think of at least one stele showing long sleeves
On an early cavalryman!

[Caivs Marivs Scipio]

To be honest I don't know any source of a (1st century AD) Roman cavalryman using a woven belt instead of leather. Is there any?

[jvrjenivs]

To be honest I don't know any source of a (1st century AD) Roman cavalryman using a woven belt instead of leather. Is there any?

Well, firstly, how do you determine the cavalryman used a leather belt?

Of course, unless a soldier (which is a cavalryman, according to the spurs on his boots and the complete saddle next to him) is be found we can say anything for sure. But well, I do use some kind of belt (most of the time a tablet woven one) to tie-up my tunic. My leather belt (with the beltplates) is then going on top of my armour.

On the belt of the cavalryman I furthermore suggest you to read the work* of Stephanie Hoss on the subject

Furthermore we know of soldiers using tablet woven belts, and they like colours, especially cavalryman. It stays hypothetical, but I don't see why a cavalry tunic should be monochrome and plain. Remember also that details on monuments are often painted on and that there are sources enough of abundant colour designs.

* Hoss, S. (2010): The military belts of the equites. In: H.-J. Schalles, A. W. Busch (eds): Waffen in Aktion. Akten des 16. Internationalen Roman Military Equipment Conference (ROMEC), Xanten, 13.-16. Juni 2007. Xantener Berichte 16, 313-322.

[garrelt]

Furthermore we know of soldiers using tablet woven belts, and they like colours, especially cavalryman.

So do woman. :wink:

But which motives/patterns were used.

Have a nice Slavic, Polish made tablet woven belt.
If the pattern used is not really an issue than in theory I can wear this belt with my Gallo-Germanic Roman era kit.

A cavalryman without a horse is just a normal foot soldier.

[Graham Sumner]

Quote:
Furthermore we know of soldiers using tablet woven belts, and they like colours, especially cavalryman. It stays hypothetical, but I don't see why a cavalry tunic should be monochrome and plain. Remember also that details on monuments are often painted on and that there are sources enough of abundant colour designs.

Hi Jurjen.

Is this quote based on S.Hoss?

Off hand I do not know of any evidence for Roman soldiers using tablet woven belts at all, for cavalry liking colours anymore than infantry, other than the single reference from Arrian regarding the sports tunic, or an abundant range of colour designs. So if I am completely wrong I would be very interested to know of any references for this.

The tunic made by Claire appears to have been based on typical clothing finds from Germany and Denmark so presumably nothing specifically military or cavalry just the basic clothing fashion of the time. It is of a style that would become later become popular in the third century Roman Army and which probably evolved from garments like this, although without the tablet woven decoration. The third century decoration was a mixture of the old Roman tunic clavi with eastern styles like the arrow designs and the orbiculi.

Nice garment by the way Claire!

Graham.

[jvrjenivs]

Is this quote based on S.Hoss?

No, it's my personal opinion/conclusion from my research into the topic.

Off hand I do not know of any evidence for Roman soldiers using tablet woven belts at all, for cavalry liking colours anymore than infantry, other than the single reference from Arrian regarding the sports tunic, or an abundant range of colour designs. So if I am completely wrong I would be very interested to know of any references for this.

The only reference I've off hand now (as I have just been reading that book is the use of tablet belts in the recent 'war and worship'. I've to look up the references for the lower rhine area though, but I think it was in either Nicolay's Armed batavians or Roymans' Ethnic identity and imperial power. Furthermore, I did my research into the Batavian ALAE, which in my opinion includes lots of local influences, so I always also look into foreign clothing traditions, so include germanic finds.

As for the colour statement, I based that on many more than clothing alone. Of course we have the reference from Arrian, but if we look at the helmets, especially from my region, we've the Kops Plateau helmets with horsehair decorations. These decorations seems to have been multi-coloured. Furthermore the masks, decorated umbo etc all seem to have been decorated with multi-coloured patterns (in silver and gold), as well as pugiones, sword scabbards, etc. This multi-coloured decorative thing is also put forward by Markus Junkelmann when doing his cavalry research.

The tunic made by Claire appears to have been based on typical clothing finds from Germany and Denmark so presumably nothing specifically military or cavalry just the basic clothing fashion of the time. It is of a style that would become later become popular in the third century Roman Army and which probably evolved from garments like this, although without the tablet woven decoration. The third century decoration was a mixture of the old Roman tunic clavi with eastern styles like the arrow designs and the orbiculi.

I totally agree with you about this fashion changes described here. You're the expert, but I think we have enough information to put more colours into clothing/kit than was previously done (well, you know my kit)

[Musivarius]

A cavalryman without a horse is just a normal foot soldier.

You just have to look at cavalry down the ages to see how they love to dress up. It differentiates you from the plebs on the ground even without your horse.
Once you've worked on horseback the ability to look down your nose at anyone on the ground stays with you even after dismounting! :wink:

[Graham Sumner]

Good points Jurjen.

It is interesting to compare this view with the statements from Simon James' recent book discussed over on another thread. These appear to reflect the third century army however. I guess the truth as always lies somewhere in between.

"important details of dress clearly reflect continuities in expressing soldierly masculinity. Milites still regarded themselves as proud Roman males with values and traditions to uphold. Trousers were drab, usually greyish, while cloaks were normally yellow-brownish, suitably subdued and practical colours for men whose ideology emphasized traditional Roman plainness and the sweat, dust an toil of service, contrasting appropriately with the gaudy colours and elaboration of the dress of barbarians and women. However, officers’ cloaks, and all ranks’ tunics (at least for so-called ‘camp dress’), were white with purple details (plate v). This expressed the status of soldiers as free and privileged males, for purple-detailed white tunics were the dark business suit and necktie of the era, worn by all respectable Italians, Greeks, Jews and others.”


“Reportedly, Roman kit was also deliberately less gorgeous than that of peoples like the Samnites, who invested heavily in showy armour; certainly, later milites regarded plainness in dress, linked to their willingness to toil and sweat for their country on dusty roads and digging entrenchments, as things distinguishing Roman virtus from gaudy and effeminate foreign equipment.”

From this it would appear your avearge Roman infantry soldier thought the cavalry gaudy and effeminate! :grin:

Graham.