How much medieval armor is too much?

[Justin I]

I thought this was interesting:
http://www.history.com/news/2011/07/20/i...n_HIS_HITH

[Dithrambus]

Well, it's from the History? channel so I am naturally dubious.. :-P

There are others here (namely Dan Howard) who could offer a more knowledgeable opinion on medieval armour, but a couple of things seem off to me, one would be the listed weight of 66-110 lbs for a field/battle harness, this seems a bit high and I doubt that even a tournament harness would weigh as much as 110 lbs. Based on the research that I have seen, a knight or man at arms could move quite easily in a battle harness, running, jumping, standing, sitting, kneeling, crouching, mounting and dismounting a horse etc etc are all performed in relative ease. Also, to suggest that the French loss at Agincourt could be attributed to the weight of armour is also in question.

[Sean Manning]

We do have a primary source that says that many French gens d'armes at Agincourt wore a full suit of mail under their harness, instead of just voiders. But there are a lot of problems with that study. Its pretty obvious that heavy foot and leg armour are tiring to walk in, which is why gens d'arms didn't walk to war. They had horses and wagons and servants to carry their kit!

Friends with a properly fitted kit are concerned by the comment that the cuirass restricted the subjects' breathing. Was the armour properly fitted to the subjects?

[richard robinson]

And I thought this topic was going to be about when I sane person should stop making and collecting armour.....
then what would the answer be??????????????

regards
Richard

[Dan Howard]

And I thought this topic was going to be about when I sane person should stop making and collecting armour.....
then what would the answer be??????????????

To paraphrase Charlton Heston: "I'll stop collecting armour when you take it from my cold dead hands."

The above study claimed that the reason why the subject used more energy wearing armour than a back pack of the same weight was because of the additional weight on the legs. They then extrapolate from this spurious conclusion to claim that this is the reason why the French lost at Agincourt. The study didn't bother to control for any breathing restriction the armour caused on the chest. Properly fitted armour wouldn't do this but it is unlikely that the armour in the study was properly fitted.

[Justin I]

I'd have to say tactics and discipline are primarily to blame for the French defeat at Agincourt. This study proves that heavy armor can have a negative effect on stamina but that's something that commanders have known since ancient times. The solution is a combined arms approach.
Still, I was interested in the notion that as warriors aged and accumulated more and better armor, their stamina waned and they might be at a disadvantage against some young peasant with a simple weapon.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

This study was discussed on FB to, much the same conclusions as yours, Dan.
I think part of the problem at Agincourt was the morass of mud the heavy infantry and cavalry got mired in? Or is that another TV invention?

[Lyceum]

This study was discussed on FB to, much the same conclusions as yours, Dan.
I think part of the problem at Agincourt was the morass of mud the heavy infantry and cavalry got mired in? Or is that another TV invention?

That's plausible, I don't think one sole factor is to blame however. I also seem to remember something about the..misplaced French cavalry and a few other things. I can not remember actually, it's been a while since we had to study that campaign. :lol:

[Carus Andiae]

There are others here (namely Dan Howard) who could offer a more knowledgeable opinion on medieval armour, but a couple of things seem off to me, one would be the listed weight of 66-110 lbs for a field/battle harness,

I can't claim expertise, but from my own studies my understanding was that the average weight of a field armour was approximately 45-50lbs.

[Dithrambus]

There are others here (namely Dan Howard) who could offer a more knowledgeable opinion on medieval armour, but a couple of things seem off to me, one would be the listed weight of 66-110 lbs for a field/battle harness,

I can't claim expertise, but from my own studies my understanding was that the average weight of a field armour was approximately 45-50lbs.

Yes, that is what I understand the weight of the typical field/battle harness would have been also. :-)