Subarmalis designs?

[pavka]

Would it be too tacky (or whatever the English word is) to put Medusa-head conchos on the ends of the flaps?


[attachment=3067]MEDUSA_Zierniete_Altmessing_m.jpg[/attachment]

[Magnus]

Yes. Fringe was about the only thing on the ends of the straps as far as I know. Unless you are putting a set of the smaller, short pteryges first. I believe I've seen some with decorations on them. (see above pic earlier in this thread)

[M. Demetrius]

After a while the stuffing what ever it may be will migrate downwards

Not if it were "stuffed" with felt.

[pavka]

Yes. Fringe was about the only thing on the ends of the straps as far as I know. Unless you are putting a set of the smaller, short pteryges first. I believe I've seen some with decorations on them. (see above pic earlier in this thread)

The way I see the above picture, they look more like they are integrated with the armour, not part of the subarmalis at all?

[jvrjenivs]

Would it be too tacky (or whatever the English word is) to put Medusa-head conchos on the ends of the flaps?

On the ends of the ptryges: yes. However, as indicated on the above statue and on many higher-ranking officer statues, a border of rounded small flaps with applications can be seen on the direct border of the musculata. However, I would say this part of the armour is part of thew musculata, where the subarmalis and the pteryges is a separate garment.

However, this reminds me on a(n piece of a) statue where the pteryges seem to be decorated with (goddess) figures. I think it is in D'amato's higly discussed book. However, if my mind serves me well, this ptryges showd to have fringe ending, again.

just my two denarii.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

A lot of discussion centers on the design of this, but has anyone considered a practical thickness for the padding required underneath a musculata?

I thought 5 - 10mm was reasonable?

[Magnus]

The way I see the above picture, they look more like they are integrated with the armour, not part of the subarmalis at all?

Well, that's the 1 million dollar question lol. I agree it does look like it's one piece, but who knows? Perhaps the smaller, "tongue" shaped ones are part of the cuirass, maybe not. Certainly none of the greek cuirasses were found with this addition. So why would the Romans do it? I tend to lean towards the smaller pteryges being part of the subarmalis personally.

[pavka]

I tend to lean towards the smaller pteryges being part of the subarmalis personally.

Yes, but then the subarmalis would need to fit the armour really well. Seems difficult to achieve. I'd personally hang them from the armour, but in the absence of armour found with stitching holes for the purpose that would be just my "poetic interpretation", sort of thing.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I wonder if it is attached to a layer of padding inside the armour?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Perhaps a moderator could seperate the grammar debate from the topic of the thread, please? :-)

[Robert Vermaat]

Perhaps a moderator could seperate the grammar debate from the topic of the thread, please? :-)

Good thought.
http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?...&id=306949

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Another reconstruction hit the internet today of AppiusLucretiusMartiusAudaxAlma.



I have asked him where he found any evidence for it but he could not state it.

Personally I think it is far fetched and I would go for quilted/padded garments like this
simple construction :





M.VIB.M.

I must say that looks very much like a Linothorax. Has anyone worn one as a subarmalis?

[Magnus]

I think it might be a bit stiff? And you want it padded to absorb energy...stiff material may not do that.

[Dan Howard]

Hold on though. People who have worn lorica segmentata seem to feel that it is much more comfortable with an undergarment with padded shoulders, but you certainly don't need more than a heavy garment under mail. I don't, on the rare occasions I wear mail or scale. Its also possible that many mail shirts and plate cuirasses had integrated padding. There is no evidence for specialized arming garments in Latin Christendom or the Germanic world between De Rebus Bellicis and the early 12th century, and we have enough evidence towards the end of that period that this is unlikely to be an accident. The only pre-Roman evidence I know is the famous Gadal-Iama who wanted to be provided with a special garment as well as his armour, and the “thorakes kai spolades” passage in the Anabasis (if we read it as both to each; I don't).

Agreed with Sean. I have no problem with some sort of dedicated garment being required for the segmentatata but it definitely is not required for scale or mail. I've already said previously that a lot more armour than we suppose probably had an integrated padded liner - especially mail.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

For whatever it is worth, my group's re-enacting experience shows that properly made to fit segmented armor can be comfortably worn over a tunic, without any additional undergarment.