Thermopylae Film!

[Dithrambus]

Haha, no there is not a new film based on Thermopylae, got your attention though!

Ghostmojo and I recently had a playful conversation on our ideals for a film based on the battle of Thermopylae, my idea was to title the film 700, which would of course include a brief though derogatory mention of the Spartans.. :twisted:

Seriously though, I am curious to know what others think a proper film based on this subject should include, personally I would like to see some socio political background from both the Greek and Persian perspective, this gets tricky obviously, especially any attempt to maintain context of the times, while keeping the film entertaining would also be a concern, lets face it, a film must be entertaining to be financially viable, otherwise its just another documentary (not that I mind that, just not feasible for a big budget film).

What do the rest of you think such a film should include, and how would you maintain entertainment value while also keeping within historical accuracy?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

For me, the prime canditate was Steven Pressfields Gates of Fire.
Pity it got railroaded!

[Dithrambus]

For me, the prime canditate was Steven Pressfields Gates of Fire.
Pity it got railroaded!

Of course! And yes that would be my first choice for an adaptation of an existing novel, but what if we had our say in what such a film would include? (lets view this as a R.A.T. Film Studios production..that has a nice ring to it! :grin: )

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Probably we will get a cast of Leonidas' and Darius' with no supporting actors!! :lol: :mrgreen:

But seriously, it would take a good story teller to entwine the facts with a plausable story,
which is indeed an interesting but very time consuming project!

[Dithrambus]

Probably we will get a cast of Leonidas' and Darius' with no supporting actors!! :lol: :mrgreen:

But seriously, it would take a good story teller to entwine the facts with a plausable story,
which is indeed an interesting but very time consuming project!

Yes, but who better to tackle such a project than the illustrious membership of R.A.T.? Of course, there is the distinct possibility that such a group effort could erupt into an all out brawl! :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

:lol:

I'm Leonidas!!

NO, I'm Leonidas!!!

No way, I'm Leonidas!!!!

[Lyceum]

Some friends and I had a similar discussion a while back (basically playfully poking fun at a paper one of us had recently given you see) and we basically decided that it would be really cool to do this film from a "contextual" perspective. Not giving a shit about the meaningless labels the non academic community stupidly puts on these things Persia vs Greeks, East vs West, Clash of Civilisations etc etc....instead the story could be fleshed out rather well across two films giving an overarching account detailing the Persian and Hellenic backgrounds...show the story in all with all its massive complexities.

Essentially it would be really good to start with the peoples of Mikrasia and go from there. There are actually several intertwining story lines that way.

One can dream..

[Dithrambus]

Some friends and I had a similar discussion a while back (basically playfully poking fun at a paper one of us had recently given you see) and we basically decided that it would be really cool to do this film from a "contextual" perspective. Not giving a shit about the meaningless labels the non academic community stupidly puts on these things Persia vs Greeks, East vs West, Clash of Civilisations etc etc....instead the story could be fleshed out rather well across two films giving an overarching account detailing the Persian and Hellenic backgrounds...show the story in all with all its massive complexities.

Essentially it would be really good to start with the peoples of Mikrasia and go from there. There are actually several intertwining story lines that way.

One can dream..

Yes, this is what I was looking for! Perhaps the story would be far to complex to flesh out in the short span of a film, maybe a mini-series would be preferable? Now, if we are talking mini series, then perhaps we begin with the Ionian revolt and work our way from there? Hm...



Thanks for humoring me guys, I am laid up with bronchitis and bored to tears! mile:

[Dithrambus]

:lol:

I'm Leonidas!!

NO, I'm Leonidas!!!

No way, I'm Leonidas!!!!

Yep, and we would all want to be hoplites, good luck convincing anyone to play helot attendants! :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yeah, but that was what I liked about Gates of Fire, it was told from the Helot's perspective.
Interesting and different to other books I had read.
as for branching out to include the Ionian Rebellions, and Athens backing of them, and the whole
historical timeline leading up to it, you may lose an audiance's attention if it is not a more direct
storyline. The characters would be changing too mauch perhaps to catch a following.
I think Sparticus' success was the fact they had characters which caught the attention of girls and#
boys who may not have had a great deal of interest in gladiators before this.
Funny how TV can inspire people!

[Vindex]

I think it would make a fab opera (NOT a musical, thank you) which is then made into a film.

[Dithrambus]

Yeah, but that was what I liked about Gates of Fire, it was told from the Helot's perspective.
Interesting and different to other books I had read.
as for branching out to include the Ionian Rebellions, and Athens backing of them, and the whole
historical timeline leading up to it, you may lose an audiance's attention if it is not a more direct
storyline. The characters would be changing too mauch perhaps to catch a following.
I think Sparticus' success was the fact they had characters which caught the attention of girls and#
boys who may not have had a great deal of interest in gladiators before this.
Funny how TV can inspire people!

Yes, fair point! Just because my (or our) attention span could endure such a long and drawn out affair doesn't mean that it would appeal to the average audience.

And I to really like the perspective of Gates, I also like that Steven P. included just a touch of mythology as well. "I have always found the spear to be a inelegant weapon"

[Ghostmojo]

For me, the prime canditate was Steven Pressfields Gates of Fire.
Pity it got railroaded!

Of course! And yes that would be my first choice for an adaptation of an existing novel, but what if we had our say in what such a film would include?

I beg to differ in that respect. I've read the Pressfield book and it is good (as are many of his others) but the story as told by Herodotos and others is strong enough as it is. There is NO need IMHO for any kind of Helot's eye view of it at all. We have had two stabs at this story and both have disappointed for one reason or other:

The 300 Spartans (1962) starring Richard Egan, Sir Ralph Richardson and Diane Baker - was typical sword and sandals fayre. Historically weak and militarily innaccurate; involving a very un-Spartan love affair; and other bollocks, but what you you expect of such product of that time?

300 (2007) starring Gerard Butler, David Wenham and Lena Hadley - was a great cinematic version of Frank Miller's comic - but again not remotely history. Perhaps Wenham's involvement reinforced the feeling that this was more Tolkien than Herodotos? It is a very good film in its own right and genre, but little serves the subject.

Both films showed a young virile Leonidas I (of about 35 when he was in real life at least 55 and more like 60). Both films went with the short hair look - metal bin-lid shields - complete lack of understanding of tactics etc. In each instance it is understandable. The older film simply didn't have any intellectually researched base, and the newer one was a fantastical reimagining anyway.

There were plans for a Thermopylai film several years ago. Michael Mann had written a treatment. It was considered a serious contender following the success of Gladiator, and those who read the treatment say the battle scenes in the pass would have made the latter film's battle scenes look like a picnic! Both Bruce Willis and George Clooney were interested in the lead role. It is a great shame it never got further. Sadly, the appearance of 300 and the generally poor reception to Oliver Stone's 2004 Alexander may have put paid to it - for now.

My suggestion to Mark was that a film which accurately portrayed the events of August 480BC, and which (almost) equally considered the involvement of the 700 Thespians, as well as the better known 300 Spartans; might be entitled: The 1000. I suppose you could include some of the action at Artemision as well.

Of all the great military last stands: Rorke's Drift; The Alamo; Khartoum; The Little Big Horn; Dien Bien Phu; and others; surely the three-day Battle for the Pass of Thermopylai is the most magnificent, inspiring and deserving of the ultimate cinematic tribute?

Third time lucky?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

For me, the prime canditate was Steven Pressfields Gates of Fire.
Pity it got railroaded!

Of course! And yes that would be my first choice for an adaptation of an existing novel, but what if we had our say in what such a film would include?

We have had two stabs at this story and both have disappointed for one reason or other:

The 300 Spartans (1962) starring Richard Egan, Sir Ralph Richardson and Diane Baker - was typical sword and sandals fayre. Historically weak and militarily innaccurate; involving a very un-Spartan love affair; and other bollocks, but what you you expect of such product of that time?

This one was better than 300.

300 (2007) starring Gerard Butler, David Wenham and Lena Hadley - was a great cinematic version of Frank Miller's comic - but again not remotely history. Perhaps Wenham's involvement reinforced the feeling that this was more Tolkien than Herodotos? It is a very good film in its own right and genre, but little serves the subject.


There were plans for a Thermopylai film several years ago. Michael Mann had written a treatment. Third time lucky?

This was the screen rights to Pressfields Book!
Then the market was flooded by the poor contenders Troy and Alexander....and the abysmal 300! :evil:

[Dithrambus]

For me, the prime canditate was Steven Pressfields Gates of Fire.
Pity it got railroaded!

Of course! And yes that would be my first choice for an adaptation of an existing novel, but what if we had our say in what such a film would include?

I beg to differ in that respect. I've read the Pressfield book and it is good (as are many of his others) but the story as told by Herodotos and others is strong enough as it is. There is NO need IMHO for any kind of Helot's eye view of it at all. We have had two stabs at this story and both have disappointed for one reason or other:

The 300 Spartans (1962) starring Richard Egan, Sir Ralph Richardson and Diane Baker - was typical sword and sandals fayre. Historically weak and militarily innaccurate; involving a very un-Spartan love affair; and other bollocks, but what you you expect of such product of that time?

300 (2007) starring Gerard Butler, David Wenham and Lena Hadley - was a great cinematic version of Frank Miller's comic - but again not remotely history. Perhaps Wenham's involvement reinforced the feeling that this was more Tolkien than Herodotos? It is a very good film in its own right and genre, but little serves the subject.

Both films showed a young virile Leonidas I (of about 35 when he was in real life at least 55 and more like 60). Both films went with the short hair look - metal bin-lid shields - complete lack of understanding of tactics etc. In each instance it is understandable. The older film simply didn't have any intellectually researched base, and the newer one was a fantastical reimagining anyway.

There were plans for a Thermopylai film several years ago. Michael Mann had written a treatment. It was considered a serious contender following the success of Gladiator, and those who read the treatment say the battle scenes in the pass would have made the latter film's battle scenes look like a picnic! Both Bruce Willis and George Clooney were interested in the lead role. It is a great shame it never got further. Sadly, the appearance of 300 and the generally poor reception to Oliver Stone's 2004 Alexander may have put paid to it - for now.

My suggestion to Mark was that a film which accurately portrayed the events of August 480BC, and which (almost) equally considered the involvement of the 700 Thespians, as well as the better known 300 Spartans; might be entitled: The 1000. I suppose you could include some of the action at Artemision as well.

Of all the great military last stands: Rorke's Drift; The Alamo; Khartoum; The Little Big Horn; Dien Bien Phu; and others; surely the three-day Battle for the Pass of Thermopylai is the most magnificent, inspiring and deserving of the ultimate cinematic tribute?

Third time lucky?

Almost? :evil: And so the brawl begins.. :lol:

All good points Howard, though narrative through the eyes of a protagonist can be a positive film device.

I have "The 300 Spartans" on DVD for sentimental reasons and though I find it unbearable to watch these days, it was my first exposure to the legend of Thermopylae when I was very young (probably in the late sixties/early seventies when I was around 6-10 years old) I remember feeling very sad at the end.

Wasn't the Michael Mann treatment based upon Gates of Fire? It seems I remember reading that somewhere, regardless it is a crying shame that such a film was not produced, yet 300 was..