Legion Consolidation?

[Matthius_Titus]

I was sitting here looking at the legions that are listed here in the states and i see a few scattered and i also seen some being defunct. Was there ever a time where anyone thought of consolidating these smaller units into a bigger unit? We did such a thing in Civil War reenacting. We took smaller units and melted them into a bigger unit then divided them up into regiments then into battalions. We now have over 1,000 strong in 2 battalions the left wing and the right wing and these units come from all over the states. Each year there is a meeting in neutral territories and each unit pays dues and goes into the battalion fund for tents,loaner gear etc etc. We also hold a battalion drill every year to shake off the rust and train new officers. Each unit keeps their identity but belongs to the parent organization. Has this ever been thought of in roman reenactment groups? I just joined a roman reenactor group and the schedule is very light this year but i see other units doing their thing so would not be better to pull together and support all events? or expand the hobby? things work better IMO with numbers instead of a trickle of guys at a event. It is just a thought and if there was already a discussion on this then i apologize for the repeat thread. I would love to hear anyone's thoughts.

[Robert Vermaat]

Yes, only a few years ago there was the National legion, initiated by our very own Dan Peterson.
Don't know why it did not happen in the end, there was quite a bit of enthusiasm. Politics no doubt, or perhaps too many groups unwilling to give up authority.

I think this was the thread (6 years ago):
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...=entrypage

[Matthius_Titus]

Thank you Robert! That would have been alot of digging for me. I seen the question on there who would lead. The way we do it the most senior officer would start out and or the unit with the most manpower their commander would be the leader until elections could be had. Those chosen are from a pool of officers eligible to command. There would have to be requirements that would have to made up on who will be eligible to command. This would be a democratic way and the leader is chosen by those in the units. I wish this would have come to fruit because if we had a all roman event and with numbers here on the east coast in the states i know it will take off. With Spartacus being a smash hit on Starz there is going to be a influx of people who would be curious to the hobby just like when in Civil war reenacting when Glory,Gettysburg and Gods and Generals came out we could not make uniforms fast enough now we are holding events with thousands of troops. I for one was a little shaky about reenacting until i seen this site it's the next best thing to sliced bread. I just wish there is something that could be done to pick back up what Dan Started. Politics can always be hammered out it can be done. I myself took units from all over the country and formed a battalion for the Gettysburg reenactment in 2008 and i had about 650 troops from all over God/Gods creation and became a powerful machine that still exist today. We took the most senior officers and placed them at high command and moved up the junior officers in their place. Then every year we held elections. I bowed out so a younger officer could take command plus i wanted to fight Roman style so one hobby at a time. There is proof it can be done. A lot of paper work and great minds can accomplish anything. You just have to look at the big picture and see what it would do for the hobby and put aside personal unit beliefs. We all checked our egos at the door and did what was best for the hobby. I myself just recruited 3 more men for legion XXIV and that was just showing them my armor etc etc. Imagine if you had a great recruiting booklet showing all these soldiers in full gear with battle pictures it would spark a interest and Deepeeka or whoever sells armor would have to step up production. To be honest there was very little that i could find about Roman/Greek reenacting on the web. A nice unified website with interactions and headstrong recruiters would fill the ranks alot quicker. When i inquired about reenacting on a few sites it took weeks and sometimes a month to get information but here if we all banded together and all pitched in we can strike while the iron is hot and light this hobby on fire.

[Gaius Colletti]

I've stumbled upon that thread awhile ago. it was a shame nothing ever came to fruition. Roman reenacting is much smaller in the US than in Europe (or so it seems), and Roman groups always need more people

When people see my armor they always say something like "That would be really cool, but *something something* ...Civil War" Not that there is anything wrong with ACW, it just appears to drown out any and all other groups here. If the public saw 30 Romans at an event as opposed to 5-6 perhaps they wouldn't think it was such a niche hobby...

[Magnus]

It will never happen. I just re-read that thread today while searching for tutorials. But the problems that existed then, exist today in the exact same shape and form. And I would argue that the closest thing that ever came to it was Lafe, and IMO attendance was in the decline...though by all telling it was going to go back up this year (now we'll never know). The way Lafe or Castra Aestiva are run works...there is no requirement for unification of any kind or assimilation beyond what is required at the specific event.

No comparison can be made to Roman Reenacting and ACW, or WW I/II, 1812, etc. They are completely different.

The biggest influx of people into this hobby was with "Gladiator" with Russel Crowe. There hasn't been anything like it since, and really, the mass influx of people probably amounted to a handful. Remember, with no historical tie like people have in Europe with Roman...there isn't the same desire to do it. That is exactly why ACW is big in the US (but not in Europe), and 1812 is big in Canada.

[jkaler48]

Europe has actual and rebuilt sites and occasional Government sponsorship for events.
As the LAFE event demonstrated "If you build it they will come". Government sponsorship in the US is unlikely so private sites with all of the attendant problems are all we will be likely to have. Unless someone could convince cities like:
Rome, Georgia, U.S.
Rome, Illinois, U.S.
Rome, Indiana, U.S.
Rome City, Indiana, U.S.
Rome, Iowa, U.S.
Rome, Maine, U.S.
Rome, Maryland, U.S.
Rome Township, Michigan, U.S.
Rome Township, Minnesota, U.S.
Rome, New York, U.S.
Rome, Ohio, U.S.
Rome, Oregon, U.S.
Rome, Pennsylvania, U.S.
Rome Township, Crawford County, Pennsylvania, U.S.
Rome Township, Bradford County, Pennsylvania, U.S.
Rome, Adams County, Wisconsin, U.S.
Rome, Jefferson County, Wisconsin, U.S.

That an annual reenactment event would be a good tourist draw and a tax benefit to the city.

[Matthius_Titus]

Magnus i do agree with what your saying but i think if we came out of the wood work a little more and expose roman reenacting to the public i think it would catch on. More events would help as well. Compared to ACW events roman events are almost none existing. i think i have 3 with my legion compared to 20+ to the ACW. You don't always need to be on the exact location of a period in history you just have to present one that is good that the public would enjoy.

[Magnus]

But you are missing the point...ACW, Rev War, WW I/II, all of those are successful because of the cultural bond people in N. America have with them. It's an easier sell. People do enjoy the Roman period, but it's missing that bond and therefore a much harder hobby to get people hooked on.

I'm not saying Roman Reenactment won't grow...it will continue to do so, but not at a significant rate, and certainly not to the point where it will be big enough for a unified organization. Factor in group attrition rates, and the slow recruitment on top of what I mentioned above and you simply don't have the growth.

There have been TONS of public events in the 11 years that I have been at this...even ones at the Royal Ontario Museum, Municipal Fairs/festivals, parades, etc. etc. It's fun to watch, but I didn't have tons of people signing their name up. There are many older groups than mine...their average size maybe 15, but for people who come out and participate all the time it's much less.

Sorry bro, but it's a pipe dream.

[M. Demetrius]

We took a census about a year or so ago, using membership that was known in various groups--attempted to weed out duplicate names, and came up with the best estimate of less than 300 Romans in the US and Canada. That does not include various SCA units that are not doing the same thing that we "Roman Reenactors" do.

300.

Each of us is better than one in a million.

[Matthius_Titus]

Wow 300. Thats not alot at all. It can be interpreted as being a elite group or a hobby that is in serious danger of being extinct.

[Gaius Colletti]

Matt Magnus, (Matt is a popular name among Romans lol) has an excellent point about the cultural significance. Although the large majority of Americans and Canadians are of European descent, we've somewhat cut them out of "our" history. We covered the Romans in 6th grade and 9th grade in the schools I went to, other than that the majority of what I knew of Rome was from my very proud Italian family. I don't even know how many classes I had 1st Grade-12th Grade that were entirely dedicated to American or more specifically Ohio history, I took a "Western Civilization" class in HS, and all my other social studies classes were America Pre and post Civil War, Vietnam, WW2, Government, Mock UN...

In America anyways it seems that we focus on our specific history rather than our history as a whole, which is a strength and a weakness at the same time. Probably has something to do with being "politically correct".

[Magnus]

It's not going extinct...the growth rate is very slow. But it's a niche hobby within a niche hobby. So it's not going to attract the numbers as easily.

[A_Volpe]

Yup - What Magnus said. It's just not as popular here in the States. It's a rather obscure period, and Ancient period in general in the U.S. is always going to get passed over for what constitutes as more "relevant" or immediate history. (I still get the hairy eye now and then when I'm asked if I play "Union/Confederate or British/American" but say "Roman") While a good number of members in Leg III Cyr. have come in from Civil War and WW2, a number of those members are still active in those periods - and the "reenacting season" is painfully short and everything falls on the same weekends. This is also the big year for the Civil War and 1812, I admit I too focused on Civil War last year being the 150th both of the start and of the unit I'm with. So the Roman period is going to go through it's growth and crawl stages. Just like everything else.

It, dare I say, doesn't have the "bang for the buck" as does periods with firearms. Things that go BOOM get more attention than things that are Shiny.

[Magnus]

Yeah, that's another good point Andy. People are a bit more familiar with historical eras concerning firearms...even in Hollywood, there are probably more historical films made on topics in the last 200 years than on Rome. And gunpowder is highly attractive...