Greek encampment

[Invictus_Thrax]

Hi, we all try to make our kit as accurate as possible yet I have another question. This time it is not about the armor but about the environment of a hoplite.

I tried to find reading material about the matter but my personal library doesn't cover this and I seem to use the wrong keywords regarding the matter on the internet...

How would a greek encampment would have looked like? As a whole and the personal space of a hoplite. We know Greeks didn't like long campaigns but they surely must have something they slept in and kept personal belongings safe from other individuals but also from weather conditions. I read somewhere Spartans slept only on a bedroll but I don't like the mythical powers they give to spartans. They are human beings and I cannot believe spartans would have liked to fight in a wet chiton or have their bronze armor constantly installed out in plain sky. In the "Western way of war" (book) I see a lot of complaints of the heat in bronze armor while out in the sun so my guess is they must have stored in out of the sun when not fighting. These are guesses only and therefore my question is if there is any information about encampments of Greek armies (preferably spartan) or what a hoplite residents where like during war.

On events (like historia mundi) I would like to recreate a less or more accurate site of a spartan officer during campaign. So I wonder what would be a correct tent? what furniture should I bring along? I often see these tripods at events? Should I buy myself one or spare the money for other things? Many thanks for more information

[John Conyard]

This may help a little.

http://comitatus.net/greek.html

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The best people to ask about that are Giannis Hoplite, Christian Cameron,
and of course the other Greek members on here, who have a genuine interest in recreating
The Greek era.
Also there is the Hoplite Society who can be a great source of information on the period.
There are also links on the otherwise self-promoting FB, to al lthe re-enactors mentioned.
And of course they are also members here. mile:

[hoplite14gr]

Sources talk of Hellenistic camps and only Plutarch in "Lycourgus" talks of Spartans having organised camps.

Well hoplite armies had proper camps when in siege. The "peritoichisma" served as camp too but security was lax as Thucidides mentions about Melos and Platea.

Kind regards

[John Conyard]

I used Xenophon heavily. His march up country is full of interesting observations. http://comitatus.net/greek_camping.html

[Invictus_Thrax]

Thanks for the information so far! Really much appreciated

Is there any information available about the type of tent they used? Did they sleep with their mess or in individual tents,...? This would be very good information since I'll have to decide what type of tent to buy soon

Greetings

[John Conyard]

Actually using kit, marching and camping is close to my heart.

Tents, skenai, made up of panels of leather, stegasmata, probably goat, which could also be used as basic rafts when stuffed with hay. But if the climate was kind, sleeping under the stars without tents was perfectly fine.

from http://comitatus.net/greek.html as I may have already cited

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Probably a great source would be the Illiad to start off with.
The mention of camps and fortifications in this possibly hardly changed,
but also read herodotus, and Thucydides for good reference on the subjects.
And of course goggle through the Greek imagry available on the web, pottery etc
might pull up some info.

Little real info survives, apart from the tabernacle tent,
of descriptions, and of course real artifacts.

[Peter Raftos]

See also THE GREEK MILITARY CAMP IN THE TEN THOUSAND´S ARMY - by MAURICIO G. ÁLVAREZ RICO

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and a previous discussion we had 5 years ago
[url=http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?func=view&catid=19&id=79005&view=entrypage]

[Peter Raftos]

Sorry using wi fi at a remote location will have to add the urls as text:

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.ph...view/55/56
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...=entrypage

[John Conyard]

Excellent link. Thank you.

I really enjoyed John W.I. Lee's study of Xenophon's Anabasis "A Greek Army on the March". I fear I only read it last year but found it fascinating.

[hoplite14gr]

Can yo upleaase tell me if this would be acceptable as an Ancient Camp tent?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Canvas-P...249wt_1031

Kind regards

[John Conyard]

Due to lack of evidence I am sure most groups would allow it.

But it is a complex design. A simple tarpaulin design seems a simple option.

[attachment=3616]Trainingweekend2012398-Copy.JPG[/attachment]

In goat skin it seems to take about 24-30 skins.

[Iraklitos]

Can you please tell me if this would be acceptable as an Ancient Camp tent?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Canvas-P...249wt_1031

Kind regards

I'd say it's a bit large for just 1 person. Also in scrolling down I saw the remark "some poles may have been replaced by aluminum one's" which would totally kill it. I know of a group that uses something like this but there's 10 of them so putting them up is fairly easy. Don't forget to take that into acount, how hard will it be for just 1 person to put up?

I'd go for something simplier like the photo's above, maybe something small with say a 6 ft x 4 ft footprint.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Reading decriptions in Xenophon's anabasis.
Tents were made to be lived in.
The dog tent as a concept from late roman images is very convenient
for an individual to carry about, but for campaigns with greeks?
But while for modern day reenactment they look primitive enough to be convincing.
there are descriptions of an actual ancient tent I have seen which is quite elaborate,
so there would possibly be a vast variety of tents according to each station in society, I think.
I can sleep in one of those comfortably, but to live for a period of time, I choose my conteburnium tent!