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I am not being disrespectal to anyone but simple is best....Magnus example is what im on about...easy to disconnect/detach. One doesnt want a mass of leather getting in the way if one has to engage in combat immediatly whilst on the march for example.
Its not a matter of "fantasy" but practicality....also one has to remember the leather working/blacksmiths/artisans in the Legion that had to maintain all this gear.
Kevin
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Quote:Its not a matter of "fantasy" but practicality....also one has to remember the leather working/blacksmiths/artisans in the Legion that had to maintain all this gear.
You mean like, say, unnecessary belt plates, helmet decorations, helmet crests, belt aprons with metal studs and the like?
Quote:Magnus example is what im on about...easy to disconnect/detach. One doesnt want a mass of leather getting in the way if one has to engage in combat immediatly whilst on the march for example.
That´s why the it-is-fixed to the shield-version is better. You don´t have to spend a thought on what to do with your strap(s) etc. once they are detached. The system found on the originals also keeps the shield on the right height automatically, and makes it more comfortable to carry. The real importance to the Roman soldiers. ambushes while on march were their smaller problem.
Christian K.
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Varus was not a small problem.
We both have our own opinions....lets agree to disagree, after all, i'm only giving my opinion.
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Quote:Varus was not a small problem.
No, Varus was a Roman commanding officer. ^^
If you mean Arminius, he did something the Romans were apparently not prepared for. And, as I said, the "authentic" system seems to be more practical anyway, since the hanger simply stays on the shield, and can also be used to hold shields together when forming a shield wall. You can take the shield off just like a rucksack. And we find these loops on several original Roman shields. Such hooks as above shown we do not find...
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I quite like it and it's the first real evidence based system anyone has come up with. Well not quite right, thw one from Crispus is based on some carved depictions but we all know they are open to interpretation.
-just a thought thought Cristian, don't they get a a bit in the way while Gaul bashing?
Someone was moaning about loose straps but what happens with all the bits of string flapping about?
Sulpicius Florus
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Quote:Its not a matter of "fantasy" but practicality..
Well, and that is where you make the scientific mistake of modern assumption. What did the Romans found practical.
One can as easily state an attached system is more practical, as it can't get lost, so you don't have to search for your 'set of straps' before you can mount your shield onto your back.
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Quote:don't they get a a bit in the way while Gaul bashing?
Someone was moaning about loose straps but what happens with all the bits of string flapping about?
I can´t say. Did it for the greeks, I wonder, they had a similar system. Probably depends on the length of the string(s). Maybe a simple knot in the string might help there.
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There is no way that shield can be carried like that for a prolonged period of time. The circulation in the hand/finger is going to go bye-bye, especially in armour. But I guess it's written in stone, so it MUST be real! lol
I'll keep my fantasy sling, and a weather eye for the stitch you-know-whos.
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Guys, I know some of you are HUGE evidence-aholics. And I'm cool with that. But really...carrying the scutum on the march with ONE finger? Does common sense ever factor into any of your evidence crusading? One depiction and it simply must have been how they did it...geez. :mrgreen:
That is the most assinine thing I've ever seen now that I think about it LOL. Maybe they hung their helmets from their scrotums too hahahaha!
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Hi Matt
Take a closer look at the pics mate.
It has 2 shoulder straos and the bit you see in the finger is probably to ease the position a bit to pull it away from your bum.
Looks fairly practical.
Though the cord would probably get a bit tough on the shoulder without an extra bit of padding
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Quote:That´s why the it-is-fixed to the shield-version is better. You don´t have to spend a thought on what to do with your strap(s) etc. once they are detached.
I don't either, if slinging my shield (and it's already in position to fight with), I just drop the sling to the ground if I encounter enemy. I can retrieve it later, and it allows me to be completely free of it.
Quote:The system found on the originals also keeps the shield on the right height automatically, and makes it more comfortable to carry.
Mine is also at the right height, since the strap is custom sized to the user. And I would argue the point about the integral strap being more comfortable. Carrying it with one finger vs the entire left side of my body...not much of an argument there.
Quote:The real importance to the Roman soldiers. ambushes while on march were their smaller problem.
With my system, I can have my shield brought to bear in less than a second. Give me a couple seconds, and I can detach the sling. The integrated system you have to maneuver your hand to get it on the handle, or set it down and then bring the shield into position. Advantage: my way. Besides, Trajan's column shows legionarys on the march looking exactly the way I do, with my sling. So I guess it isn't really fantasy after all.
Legionarys on the march
Prateorians on the march
Close up of Legionary on the march
And there are more from the column but you get the idea. I would imagine someone with a large library could find more images supporting my system as well.
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Quote:Hi Matt
Take a closer look at the pics mate.
It has 2 shoulder straos and the bit you see in the finger is probably to ease the position a bit to pull it away from your bum.
Looks fairly practical.
Though the cord would probably get a bit tough on the shoulder without an extra bit of padding
No I get it, I know it's not supporting the whole thing. But my finger and hand, is simply not made to be put in that position for an extended period, if I'm holding a quarter of a kilogram, or 2 kilograms. Why is it depicted that way? I have no idea! But I wouldn't consider a theory proven based on one depiction of a shield being carried one way.
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AND not to mention slinging the shield like a back pack = inefficiently slow to bring into action. Practicality was brought up as a driving force of the Roman Army...this isn't practical.
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Just relax a bit, Matt... :wink:
Quote:Guys, I know some of you are HUGE evidence-aholics. And I'm cool with that. But really...carrying the scutum on the march with ONE finger? Does common sense ever factor into any of your evidence crusading? One depiction and it simply must have been how they did it...geez.
Quote: Carrying it with one finger vs the entire left side of my body...not much of an argument there.
Quote:No I get it, I know it's not supporting the whole thing. But my finger and hand, is simply not made to be put in that position for an extended period, if I'm holding a quarter of a kilogram, or 2 kilograms. Why is it depicted that way? I have no idea! But I wouldn't consider a theory proven based on one depiction of a shield being carried one way.
Don´t take it out of context, this is not a marching scene. The picture is in there, I think, to show that in the way the guys suggest a carrying system, such a mode of holding the shield is possible. That´s about it.
Quote:I don't either, if slinging my shield (and it's already in position to fight with), I just drop the sling to the ground if I encounter enemy. I can retrieve it later, and it allows me to be completely free of it.
Hm. I just imagine 6000 men doing that. When advancing towards the enemy they might be occupied looking to the ground to not be entangled in the straps from the 10 guys in front of them... Just a thought.
Quote:With my system, I can have my shield brought to bear in less than a second. Give me a couple seconds, and I can detach the sling. The integrated system you have to maneuver your hand to get it on the handle, or set it down and then bring the shield into position. Advantage: my way. Besides, Trajan's column shows legionarys on the march looking exactly the way I do, with my sling. So I guess it isn't really fantasy after all.
Well, you can do the same thing with the integrated system, but you don´t have to detach the sling. In something like a testudo it might also help holding the shields together firmly.
Quote:AND not to mention slinging the shield like a back pack = inefficiently slow to bring into action. Practicality was brought up as a driving force of the Roman Army...this isn't practical.
The pictures you show are a marching mode without additional gear. i.e. something like a quick march or march in enemy territory. They even might hold the shields in their hands, the coverings are taken off as well. This should be seen differently from the scenes on TC where the army marches within the Roman Empire towards a war zone. My "carry it like a rucksack" was just a suggestion. It certainly is possible to carry it with the integral system in the way you describe for your system.
Quote:Mine is also at the right height, since the strap is custom sized to the user. And I would argue the point about the integral strap being more comfortable.
Well, nobody disputed yours would be of the right height.
Also, the way in which one or several straps would run through the oops on the integral system is speculative (fantasy) as well. But I think it is more interesting to experiment with these than making up a theoretical system. There is some evidence, at least.
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But I posted evidence for mine...why are you discounting it?
And I am relaxed, I just think think it's funny sometimes lol.
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