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Linothorax again
Quote:So what are you thinking, Duncan? That this type of armour wasn't known as a linothorax and that it was, in fact, made of leather or that it wasn't known as a linothorax and was, in fact, made of metal?
I'm thinking "I don't know", mostly. It just strikes me that there seems to be no evidence to link the word linothorax with the cuirass with shoulder-yoke and pteryges, and most of the literary references are earlier than the armour. Tim Everson's recent Warfare in Ancient Greece suggests that the "shoulder-piece corselet", the term he uses, was originally made of linen but that later on, leather examples became commoner. He doesn't give detailed arguments or references, but he seems to be influenced by Jarva's Archaeologia on Greek Body-Armour, which I haven't read (and which seems none too easy to get hold of). The cuirasses from the Alexander Sarcophagus, for instance, look much less "boxy" than the types on 6th-5th century vases, and have longer, more flexible pteryges. Could this be because they are leather, and the earlier examples stiffened linen? Or are they just thinner?

However since most, if not all, of the literary references to linothorakes or thorakes lineoi seem to predate the introduction of the "shoulder-piece corselet" I would suspect that they refer to a different type of cuirass entirely. (And this may still be true even if the shoulder-piece corselet is [sometimes or always] made out of linen!)

Quote:I'm against the metal theory on the grounds that it seems an odd way to design metal armour - and metal armour in styles better suited to metalwork was already available, so why force the material into this awkward construction method? Okay, Philip had it done, but I'd guess he wanted to give the appearance of dressing like everyone else, while having extra protection to surprise would-be assassins. This would be a good way to find out who your friends aren't, before you die.
Another reason is the art; those stiffly upstanding straps from the epomides don't look like hinged metal.
I don't find metal particularly convincing, either, for much the same reasons. It does seem possible that some such cuirasses had metal plates incorporated in them - it's always seemed odd to me that metal scales down the sides seem to be commoner in art than metal reinforcements on the front, and maybe that's because some frontal metal plates were used, but covered. But I doubt it was ever standard.

So I suppose I am saying that I don't think "this type of armour" was known as a linothorax and that I suspect it was, at least sometimes, made of leather.

Quote:You mention a lack of references to linen armour in the literature of the Classical Period; are there references to leather body armour? Are there references to metal armour that don't relate to the usual cuirass types?
Ah, there's the rub. There aren't many references to metal or leather armour either! I did wonder if the spolas might be a leather shoulder-piece corselet. It occurs in Xenophon's Anabasis as a body-armour, and in Pollux's Onomastikon as being made of leather. But the word is also used for some sort of jerkin in a non-military context, and there is nothing direct to link it to the shoulder-piece corselet.

cheers,
Duncan
cheers,
Duncan
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Messages In This Thread
Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 10-18-2004, 07:14 PM
Linothorax! - by Anonymous - 10-21-2004, 12:40 AM
Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 03-28-2005, 10:39 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Scaevola - 06-09-2005, 03:30 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 06-11-2005, 03:12 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Scaevola - 06-11-2005, 02:33 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 06-15-2005, 03:34 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Scaevola - 06-15-2005, 08:16 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 06-16-2005, 04:58 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Antonius Lucretius - 06-30-2005, 07:39 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 06-30-2005, 09:44 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jasper Oorthuys - 06-30-2005, 09:49 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Antonius Lucretius - 07-01-2005, 12:33 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-01-2005, 10:34 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-03-2005, 04:38 PM
The question is.. - by Antonius Lucretius - 07-04-2005, 12:32 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-04-2005, 03:17 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-04-2005, 10:26 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 07-06-2005, 10:19 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-15-2005, 12:19 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-15-2005, 12:19 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-15-2005, 10:25 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-16-2005, 11:55 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-16-2005, 10:10 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-17-2005, 05:48 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-17-2005, 11:15 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-18-2005, 01:02 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-18-2005, 01:19 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-18-2005, 01:33 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-18-2005, 01:34 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-18-2005, 01:41 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-18-2005, 01:44 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-18-2005, 01:51 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-18-2005, 01:52 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-18-2005, 01:53 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-18-2005, 02:00 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-18-2005, 02:12 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-18-2005, 07:03 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-18-2005, 07:04 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 07-19-2005, 12:16 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 07-28-2005, 07:51 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 07-28-2005, 10:24 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by ARudling - 08-03-2005, 09:39 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-03-2005, 10:14 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by ARudling - 08-03-2005, 11:48 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Z - 08-04-2005, 01:36 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Felix - 08-05-2005, 12:09 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-05-2005, 04:45 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-05-2005, 11:40 PM
Quick and dirty expieriment - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-08-2005, 11:22 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-09-2005, 12:15 PM
Re: Quick and dirty expieriment - by Anonymous - 08-10-2005, 09:37 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-10-2005, 09:54 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-11-2005, 12:15 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Matthew Amt - 08-11-2005, 02:30 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-12-2005, 10:19 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-12-2005, 10:34 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-12-2005, 01:19 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-12-2005, 05:43 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-12-2005, 10:45 PM
Brine soaking and the style concious Peltast - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-13-2005, 02:19 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-13-2005, 02:55 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-13-2005, 03:00 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-13-2005, 10:05 AM
Desperate Hoplites - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-13-2005, 06:05 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-13-2005, 09:10 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-14-2005, 12:09 AM
Re: Desperate Hoplites - by Anonymous - 08-14-2005, 05:15 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-16-2005, 11:19 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-17-2005, 10:46 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-17-2005, 10:48 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-17-2005, 10:52 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-17-2005, 11:22 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-18-2005, 02:01 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-18-2005, 06:33 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-18-2005, 08:04 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-18-2005, 11:09 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-19-2005, 01:24 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-19-2005, 10:52 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-20-2005, 12:03 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-20-2005, 03:19 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-20-2005, 09:30 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Carlton Bach - 08-20-2005, 09:39 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-20-2005, 09:54 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-21-2005, 04:47 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-21-2005, 01:00 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Antonius Lucretius - 08-21-2005, 01:15 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-21-2005, 01:27 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-21-2005, 01:29 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 08-21-2005, 06:42 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-21-2005, 09:35 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 08-21-2005, 09:39 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Matthew Amt - 08-22-2005, 12:58 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-23-2005, 12:56 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-23-2005, 08:44 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-30-2005, 04:23 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-30-2005, 09:53 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Comerus Gallus - 08-31-2005, 07:05 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-31-2005, 12:27 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 08-31-2005, 02:46 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-31-2005, 10:23 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 09-01-2005, 11:52 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 09-01-2005, 09:47 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 09-02-2005, 12:45 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-22-2005, 08:51 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-24-2005, 10:14 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-25-2005, 07:25 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 12-25-2005, 08:06 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 12-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 12-26-2005, 06:48 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-26-2005, 01:08 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 12-26-2005, 01:34 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-26-2005, 09:13 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-26-2005, 10:51 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-26-2005, 11:33 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-27-2005, 12:02 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-27-2005, 01:13 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-27-2005, 01:12 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-29-2005, 01:05 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-29-2005, 10:50 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 12-29-2005, 11:09 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-29-2005, 08:04 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 12-30-2005, 10:46 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-30-2005, 04:52 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by john m roberts - 12-30-2005, 05:02 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 12-30-2005, 09:59 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 12-30-2005, 10:10 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 12-31-2005, 12:52 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 12-31-2005, 01:25 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by john m roberts - 12-31-2005, 05:08 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 01-01-2006, 02:41 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 01-01-2006, 01:34 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-01-2006, 11:44 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Vincula - 01-01-2006, 11:53 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 01-02-2006, 06:35 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 01-03-2006, 12:20 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-03-2006, 10:47 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by john m roberts - 01-04-2006, 04:41 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 01-04-2006, 07:11 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-04-2006, 10:46 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by john m roberts - 01-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 01-05-2006, 02:54 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Duncan Head - 01-05-2006, 10:41 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 01-05-2006, 01:01 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 01-07-2006, 03:07 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Duncan Head - 01-07-2006, 06:09 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 01-14-2006, 10:22 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 01-14-2006, 06:48 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 01-14-2006, 08:10 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 01-14-2006, 09:11 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-15-2006, 10:35 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 01-16-2006, 02:28 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Duncan Head - 01-16-2006, 05:08 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-16-2006, 10:07 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 01-16-2006, 11:27 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-16-2006, 11:30 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 01-16-2006, 11:49 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 01-21-2006, 01:06 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 01-21-2006, 08:48 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 01-22-2006, 11:09 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 01-23-2006, 09:20 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 01-23-2006, 06:48 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 01-23-2006, 07:52 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Duncan Head - 02-06-2006, 06:01 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 02-07-2006, 12:03 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 02-07-2006, 12:09 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 02-07-2006, 05:07 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 02-08-2006, 12:07 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 02-08-2006, 12:13 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 02-08-2006, 05:28 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 02-08-2006, 07:18 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-08-2006, 08:09 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 02-08-2006, 09:30 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 02-08-2006, 10:07 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Arthes - 02-08-2006, 10:13 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 02-08-2006, 10:20 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 02-09-2006, 04:29 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 02-09-2006, 01:59 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Duncan Head - 02-12-2006, 04:39 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Susanne - 02-12-2006, 04:45 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-12-2006, 07:15 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Susanne - 02-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 02-18-2006, 12:55 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 02-23-2006, 01:57 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 02-23-2006, 01:34 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-23-2006, 03:01 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Matthew Amt - 02-24-2006, 02:40 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 02-24-2006, 03:08 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 02-24-2006, 05:10 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-24-2006, 11:18 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Comerus Gallus - 02-24-2006, 02:43 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 02-25-2006, 12:20 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-25-2006, 07:12 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Matthew Amt - 02-25-2006, 08:00 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 02-25-2006, 08:16 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 02-26-2006, 08:28 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 02-26-2006, 09:29 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by tlclark - 03-01-2006, 10:50 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 03-01-2006, 10:52 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by tlclark - 03-02-2006, 01:26 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 03-05-2006, 11:56 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by tlclark - 03-08-2006, 06:01 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by tlclark - 03-08-2006, 09:08 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 03-08-2006, 09:33 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by tlclark - 03-08-2006, 11:47 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 03-09-2006, 02:48 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 03-09-2006, 11:18 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 03-10-2006, 06:02 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 04-11-2006, 08:08 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 04-11-2006, 11:20 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 04-12-2006, 11:14 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 04-12-2006, 12:27 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 04-12-2006, 05:00 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 04-13-2006, 01:21 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Anonymous - 04-14-2006, 07:19 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Jason Hoffman - 04-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Robert Vermaat - 04-16-2006, 10:19 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Peroni - 05-04-2006, 02:12 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 05-04-2006, 07:04 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 05-05-2006, 01:09 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Peroni - 05-05-2006, 08:16 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by Matthew Amt - 05-05-2006, 04:25 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Peroni - 05-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Scaevola - 05-06-2006, 04:16 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by conon394 - 05-06-2006, 08:00 AM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 05-06-2006, 12:25 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Peter Raftos - 07-30-2006, 04:17 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 07-30-2006, 07:01 PM
linothorax - by dkwiseman - 08-28-2006, 08:46 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by hoplite14gr - 08-29-2006, 01:55 PM
Re: Linothorax again - by Dan Howard - 08-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Re: linothorax - by Anonymous - 08-31-2006, 10:17 AM

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