10-24-2012, 04:53 AM
Well, then, I think we have come to an impasse here, which would suggest (at least in my mind) there are two options for a reasonable solution:
1) Make one yourself
2) Don't buy the Dioskouri
It's much easier to tell someone they are wrong than it is to actually do it the way you feel is correct and thereby prove it with tangible evidence of your own professing. One point I can address here (and I am NOT a blacksmith), but I can see plainly how it would be impossible to produce a 5th century B.C. Corinthian by using a hammer only. I know the pottery image you refer to, depicting the armorer using a hammer on a helmet, but this is a chasing hammer (used for decorations and chasing) and not a forming hammer. Earlier archaic helmets were (in most cases) formed from sheets of bronze, as their non anatomical shapes would suggest. When the helmet shape was refined later, it created the problem discussed above, as it was impossible to get any decent leverage or inertia to shape the bronze from within the helmet. The Greeks didn't use magic to make these helmets, neither did aliens show them how. Bronze will not pour into an area smaller than physics will allow, so they must have had a "cheat" or trick they applied to get the bronze that thin. I know bronze has many different properties that cause many undesirable results unless you are very careful. Since helmets seem to be so difficult to produce, economics dictates there had to be a way to produce an acceptable product relatively quickly, or else the armorer (and his family) had to live on the commission of one or two helmets a year. Now, if he was charging a $30,000 equivalent per helmet, then I don't have a problem.
I guess my point is - please don't bash someone's genuine, honest efforts to produce something unique, that hasn't been produced in 2,400 years (for obvious reasons) unless you can make one to your professed standards. If you can do that, then we will be more inclined to give more credence to your criticisms. Dioskouri has "put their money (literally) where their mouth is" to produce this helmet. I for one, find their efforts highly laudable. I have held the helmet and seen the thicknesses and I don't have a problem with the "Dendaskouri" at all. It looks real because it IS real - it is a product of literally decades of research and passionate efforts.
1) Make one yourself
2) Don't buy the Dioskouri
It's much easier to tell someone they are wrong than it is to actually do it the way you feel is correct and thereby prove it with tangible evidence of your own professing. One point I can address here (and I am NOT a blacksmith), but I can see plainly how it would be impossible to produce a 5th century B.C. Corinthian by using a hammer only. I know the pottery image you refer to, depicting the armorer using a hammer on a helmet, but this is a chasing hammer (used for decorations and chasing) and not a forming hammer. Earlier archaic helmets were (in most cases) formed from sheets of bronze, as their non anatomical shapes would suggest. When the helmet shape was refined later, it created the problem discussed above, as it was impossible to get any decent leverage or inertia to shape the bronze from within the helmet. The Greeks didn't use magic to make these helmets, neither did aliens show them how. Bronze will not pour into an area smaller than physics will allow, so they must have had a "cheat" or trick they applied to get the bronze that thin. I know bronze has many different properties that cause many undesirable results unless you are very careful. Since helmets seem to be so difficult to produce, economics dictates there had to be a way to produce an acceptable product relatively quickly, or else the armorer (and his family) had to live on the commission of one or two helmets a year. Now, if he was charging a $30,000 equivalent per helmet, then I don't have a problem.
I guess my point is - please don't bash someone's genuine, honest efforts to produce something unique, that hasn't been produced in 2,400 years (for obvious reasons) unless you can make one to your professed standards. If you can do that, then we will be more inclined to give more credence to your criticisms. Dioskouri has "put their money (literally) where their mouth is" to produce this helmet. I for one, find their efforts highly laudable. I have held the helmet and seen the thicknesses and I don't have a problem with the "Dendaskouri" at all. It looks real because it IS real - it is a product of literally decades of research and passionate efforts.
Bill
