I am having a hard time finding more information about these plates, I was able to dig up a thread here on RAT at one point about the original wolf & twin plates, and Matt Amt had a small feature on the Legio XX site, but other than that, more information is far and few between.
As I understand it, both different plates came from Oberstimm, but not necessarily from the same balteus? What about the other plate (I instinctively refer to the plate with the wolf as the "Wolf & Twins" plate because the two are inseparable as far as Roman history is concerned, but perhaps the "Twins" just refers to the other plate?). This other plate that has which appears to have Augustus with the spirits of Romulus & Remus? According to Anthony Everitt, Octavian wanted to have the title of "Romulus", so maybe the other plate is supposed to help Augustus' legacy blend in with Romulus'? This is of course assuming it is even Augustus on the second plate.
Can anyone tell me more about this balteus and/or plates?
Here is a close up image on my balteus, after looking at it closely, the two "spirits" on the second plate aren't faces at all, but more like a 3 leaf clover sort of charm
That image of two cornucopiae with confronted heads inside is seen on early Imperial coinage, specifically Tiberius. They represented his intended heirs and twin grandsons Tiberius Gemellus and Germanicus Gemellus. Tiberius struck this coin in the name of Drusus.
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"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"
Tiberius also used the cornucopiae with fruits and vegetables inside. In both cases it represents the bounty provided by the Emperor for the people in his capacity as PONT MAX or high priest. In the first case in providing heirs and in the second material abundance. I believe these plates are supposed to be dated to the reign of Tiberius right?
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"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"
With these beltplates the double cornucopia with the emperors head over a globe is a propaganda piece that says with this emperor the world is full of plenty,
Then the other with the wolf and twins has two other wolves above that are in effect hunting, in fact when we look at the upper part of the Fulham sword decoration we find these two wolves attacking a stag however there is not room to show this on a beltplate.
These plates should be punched out and not cast which of course gives the reason why re-enactors complain that their belt keeps falling off the segmentata.
So the "portrait" on the plate is of Tiberius? Thanks Jay, your coin collecting hobby comes in handy.
Thanks Brian, and yes these plates should be punched and not cast. But I can't complain, DSC has made an excellent belt that would have cost and arm and a leg a few years back. But I'll be the first one to agree that the belt is very heavy, 4 leather ties hold it to my lorica. I imagine stamping these could cut the weight in half
Quote:So the "portrait" on the plate is of Tiberius? Thanks Jay, your coin collecting hobby comes in handy.
No problem but I'm not sure if the belt plate is supposed to be Tiberius or Augustus or someone else. Antoninus Pius in the early 2nd century uses a similar cornucopiae with confronted heads for Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus, but Antoninus had a beard. The plate is definitely of 1st century style. If it's Augustus then it could be for his adopted heirs Gaius and Lucius. Are they heads inside? What do the originals show? What was the context of the find?
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"
This type of plate is a very common theme where we have an Emperors head between two cornucopia that are simply full of fruits and beneath the whole thing is the globe of the earth.
There have been many of this type found at different places and also there are some that show a better quality of design and artwork in the construction.
Quote:No problem but I'm not sure if the belt plate is supposed to be Tiberius or Augustus or someone else. Antoninus Pius in the early 2nd century uses a similar cornucopiae with confronted heads for Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus, but Antoninus had a beard. The plate is definitely of 1st century style. If it's Augustus then it could be for his adopted heirs Gaius and Lucius. Are they heads inside? What do the originals show? What was the context of the find?
Quote:With these beltplates the double cornucopia with the emperors head over a globe is a propaganda piece that says with this emperor the world is full of plenty,
It is very much a globe Jim not a flat disc like this one on a Divus coin of Vespasian, the two capricorns are supporting a shield over a globe that has hatching on it.
However there is no convergance of the longitude lines for where the Romans were aware the world was round they did not know about the coriolis effect.
That is interesting......the Romans knew the world was round but after the fall of Rome somehow it became flat. Was it not at the time of Columbus that the world was shown to be conclusively round?
I do not recall exactly.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
mile:
