Corinthian padding

[Theron_of _Sikyon]

I was wondering if there was any evidence for how they padded the Corinthian helmets and how that padding was attatched? I believe that I remember reading about a helmet that had stitching holes but most of them look like they do not. What are your thoughts? I recently purchased my first bronze helm and would like to have it done up right. Thanks,

Edward

[katsika]

Edward,

I would think any soft, hairy pelt (like wool, etc.) would serve well. Felt would be another option. Since the linings (cushions) were generally not stitched into the later issues, a form of glue (pitch) was probably used to keep the liner static. I would suggest you use the helmet's cranation area to stuff a slightly thicker cushion rim into - this will serve as a seal or gasket to your head, so the helmet won't flop around while worn.

[M. Demetrius]

Could you elaborate on this, Bill? Photos would be especially helpful.

[Agonis]

For the hot summer weather of Greece - ancient war operations were rarely held in winter - the most convenient padding is either linen or natural sea-sponge

Wool padding will be ok for cold climates


Adonis

[Gaius Colletti]

I'm not a big fan of wool/felt, either get very hot and sweaty. I imagine it is much harder to wipe sweat off your face while wearing a Corinthian compared to most Imperial-era Roman helmets lol

[katsika]

Sweat can be an effective evaporative cooler.

[Theron_of _Sikyon]

Thank you for the info. It was more around how it was attatched than what material. I am mostlikely going to use linen and wool for the padding, just couldent see how it would be attatched.

Edward

[Gaius Colletti]

Sweat can be an effective evaporative cooler.

Yes, but if my head isn't overheated to begin with, I won't need to sweat to cool down :lol:

Theron, there isn't much to go by with arming caps, I would use a removable one as Bill suggested for the cranium, and maybe glue or attach some fabric or leather to the cheek and nasal parts that may rub against your face. Remember that armor is useless if there isn't something to absorb the impact of a blow before.

A drunken friend of mine was excited to see my helmet at a Halloween party, upon finding out it was real metal, he brought a fist down on my head. Luckily I was wearing a foam helmet cap and it wasn't too painful. Then he punched my cheeckguard, which had a small bit of fabric attached to it, but not enough to cushion a blow, and that hurt a bit more. Mind you he was very drunk. The helmet was a Roman Gallic A, to give you an idea.

The moral of this story is: Even if you don't plan for combat, always prepare as if you were

[Theron_of _Sikyon]

The helmet arrived. Unfortunetly I need to send it back. There is a half inch crack on the left side. It fits allright. Looking forward to the new one.


Edward

[katsika]

Matt Collettivs Ave wrote:

Yes, but if my head isn't overheated to begin with, I won't need to sweat to cool down


Matt, I'm sure the Greeks didn't walk around with their helmets down in attack mode if not necessary (any more than they would have worn body armor all the time). This is one reason we see so many depictions of casual life where the helmet is worn back, or not at all. This (wearing the helmet back) is also accomplished more easily if there is a "gasket" lining circling the cranation ridge. This also presupposes the hoplite owns a helmet that fits properly.

The type of lining I am describing would afford an effective air conditioner to cool down, even if worn back on the head, as water would be gradually dispensed. If you don't want to sweat, and you aren't needing the helmet, don't wear it! :wink: I live in Texas, and am well acquainted with 100º+ temperatures. I have worked outdoors a lot under these conditions. I seriously doubt the Greeks had it any worse than we do, living on a latitude much farther north (I have been to Greece a couple of times, and found the climate very pleasant by comparison). I guarantee you, if I ever needed to wear my helmet in Texas, I would do so ONLY as long as completely necessary. I would welcome a wet, cool head over a hot, dry one anytime!

I have to add, if I had a drunken "friend" trying to pound my brains out while I was wearing my helmet, I would, in return, demonstrate to him how the same treatment feels without the helmet. :lol:

[Manius Acilius Italicus]

No helmet in history, to my personal knowledge, has been a perfect blend of comfort while fully protecting the wearer. The most technilogically advance helmet of modern times is still hot as hell in the sun and even had to be modified to prevent brain damage during severe shock. We couldn't wait to take them off when prudent.
I have a great concern about some moron, drunk or otherwise, wanting to demonstrate on my helm when worn in public or private for that matter. Pounding a fist on top could cause severe and permanent neck injury and a hard blow to the side or cheek piece could result in a broken nose, jaw or even death if to the temporal lobe. Sounds like the time to demonstate the Roman thrust with a hard fist!

[katsika]

Hehehe!! Or one could take the helmet off and use it as a "blunt instrument"! I'm quite sure his head isn't as hard as my helmet.

I agree about the time spent within the "cranial oven" - today, as then, helmets were something to be shed of as soon as the situation permits. No one wants a hibachi-steamed brain.

[Gaius Colletti]

Matt, I'm sure the Greeks didn't walk around with their helmets down in attack mode if not necessary (any more than they would have worn body armor all the time). This is one reason we see so many depictions of casual life where the helmet is worn back, or not at all. This (wearing the helmet back) is also accomplished more easily if there is a "gasket" lining circling the cranation ridge. This also presupposes the hoplite owns a helmet that fits properly.

The type of lining I am describing would afford an effective air conditioner to cool down, even if worn back on the head, as water would be gradually dispensed. If you don't want to sweat, and you aren't needing the helmet, don't wear it! :wink: I live in Texas, and am well acquainted with 100º+ temperatures. I have worked outdoors a lot under these conditions. I seriously doubt the Greeks had it any worse than we do, living on a latitude much farther north (I have been to Greece a couple of times, and found the climate very pleasant by comparison). I guarantee you, if I ever needed to wear my helmet in Texas, I would do so ONLY as long as completely necessary. I would welcome a wet, cool head over a hot, dry one anytime!

I have to add, if I had a drunken "friend" trying to pound my brains out while I was wearing my helmet, I would, in return, demonstrate to him how the same treatment feels without the helmet. :lol:

Of course not, although felt is a more historically accurate material than most other materials, admittedly I use a foam based headline for my Roman helms, not all all period accurate, but it is comfortable.

I agree we see many depictions of the Corinthian being worn pulled up on the head (although I don't find this comfortable at all), I only suggest not using felt to make this helmet more wearable, but this is again my opinion, and of course the individual should chose to what degree of accuracy they would like to reenact, although the Greeks probably would have worn this helmet above their face more than on it, this would not be the ideally what I would want to reenact lol, again to each his own.

Ohh and about my drunken friend, it wasn't a full force blow, that would have started a brawl lol, to avoid such an all out brawl, I outsmarted him and suggested he take a swing at my segmentata armor :mrgreen: You can guess who hurt more after than lol

[katsika]

Hey Matt,

My referring to the wearing of the Corinthian back on the head (and its comfort level) presupposes that one possesses a proper-fitting helmet to begin with. By that, I mean one that you don't have to balance on your head and worry whether or not it's going to fall off unexpectedly (I have seen this happen, but not to me!). A correct Corinthian will (and even more so with a soft liner) fit snugly on the head in an almost "suction-like" manner. While being worn down, there should be barely enough space to slide one's own hand up under the nose guard area, between it and the face. Any more space than this is an indication that your helmet is too big. After all, it's not a cow-catcher; it's a helmet for war, and there should be as little movement while being worn as possible. Don't misunderstand - I am NOT advocating the abandoning of a soft liner (whatever the material), but all should be comfortable and snug - no matter what the position is on one's head. Most of the reproduction helmets on the market today are way too big - even with cushioned liners. hock:

[Gaius Colletti]

Thanks Bill, I recently bought the Corinthian A from DSC, I knew before buying it that the chin/cheek pieces were a little long, but for the money the only other option would have been the Deepeeka version (which I actually do have... and loath. One of these days I'll ask Dioskouri or another metalsmith if they can do any work for it