08-10-2012, 04:22 AM
There is an issue with the usage of the term citizen though - In the 210s or 230s (don't remember what year septimus severus reigned) everyone in the Empire was declared a Citizen.
So Barbarians at the time could technically be Roman Citizens.
And don't forget; there's no such thing as Barbarization. The Romans had been using non-romans since the formation of the senate in 509 BC.
Also, didn't know that bit about Radagasius or the hunnic Auxilia. My knowledge of the 5th century is extensive, but with only memory, notes, a crappy translation of Hydatius and the text of Merobaudes I really can't do much right now.
Also, yeah 80,000 Nuclear families crossed the straits of Gibraltar. So about 15-20K in men. The Gallic field army probably numbered around 10,000, so the Illyrian and Spanish Field Armies probably only added another 15000, all and all I've estimated the Field Army between 439 and 454 to be numbering only around 30,000 men, considering the Loss of Africa and other revenue Issues from almost nonstop combat in gaul and spain.
Spain really wasn't generating much wealth anyways after the Silver mines dried up. That's probably one of the resons Narbonnesis and Arelate were so hotly contested - control of the local silver mines (along with access to mediterranean trade routes)
I think that simply the nonstop warfare ground the army to a hault, although in 425 there were enough men to counter Aetius' army of 60,000 Huns (and nuclear families, so about 10,000-15,00 huns) and there were enough between Bonifatius and Aetius to fight at Rimini (and then Aetius pulled hunnic support to regain power, as it appears the armies annihalated each other considering Aetius suffered his only recorded defeat and the African field army was torn to shreds in the first place.)
Merobaudes does record the success of Aetius leading a Roman Army at mons colubrarius, Hydatius references it too cause both record it to be in 438 and Hydatius mentions 8K in goths were slain in the battle. No record of the huns in that battle and then they were destroyed at toulose. (I belive Hydatius and Jordanes specifically mentions that Litorius attempted to besiege the city with the huns, whom had no knowledge of siege warfare. That's a possibility of where Attila learned his seige tactics for the Balkans campaigns)
So Barbarians at the time could technically be Roman Citizens.
And don't forget; there's no such thing as Barbarization. The Romans had been using non-romans since the formation of the senate in 509 BC.
Also, didn't know that bit about Radagasius or the hunnic Auxilia. My knowledge of the 5th century is extensive, but with only memory, notes, a crappy translation of Hydatius and the text of Merobaudes I really can't do much right now.
Also, yeah 80,000 Nuclear families crossed the straits of Gibraltar. So about 15-20K in men. The Gallic field army probably numbered around 10,000, so the Illyrian and Spanish Field Armies probably only added another 15000, all and all I've estimated the Field Army between 439 and 454 to be numbering only around 30,000 men, considering the Loss of Africa and other revenue Issues from almost nonstop combat in gaul and spain.
Spain really wasn't generating much wealth anyways after the Silver mines dried up. That's probably one of the resons Narbonnesis and Arelate were so hotly contested - control of the local silver mines (along with access to mediterranean trade routes)
I think that simply the nonstop warfare ground the army to a hault, although in 425 there were enough men to counter Aetius' army of 60,000 Huns (and nuclear families, so about 10,000-15,00 huns) and there were enough between Bonifatius and Aetius to fight at Rimini (and then Aetius pulled hunnic support to regain power, as it appears the armies annihalated each other considering Aetius suffered his only recorded defeat and the African field army was torn to shreds in the first place.)
Merobaudes does record the success of Aetius leading a Roman Army at mons colubrarius, Hydatius references it too cause both record it to be in 438 and Hydatius mentions 8K in goths were slain in the battle. No record of the huns in that battle and then they were destroyed at toulose. (I belive Hydatius and Jordanes specifically mentions that Litorius attempted to besiege the city with the huns, whom had no knowledge of siege warfare. That's a possibility of where Attila learned his seige tactics for the Balkans campaigns)
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