Where you mention that the tombstone of Calidius Severus looks like a padded corselet Russell Robinson states it as being squamata, however could Robinson in fact be wrong for in the translation of Suetonius by Philemon Holland he dose mention a cuirass as being a quilted leather coat at times with iron plates.
Then it could even be as also given by Holland where he mentions. They used in old times such cuirasses(instead of breastplates) made from linen webs, folded 18 times and more. For so Nicetas Acominatus writeth, which folds being thorougly steeped and soaked in vinegar or austere wine, with salt put thereto, and afterwards well driven and wrought together in manner of felt, became so stiff an armour of so good proof, as that it would check the dint of any dart or shot whatsoever.
Quote:I thought of Calidius Severus too. But of course, since he was a centurion he must have been wearing scale, right?
You said it, not I :!:
Quote:It does look rather like a padded corselet with integral pteruges though... if we didn't know any better...
Yes, it does. But, as you say, we (probably) know better. We've seen indisputable examples of free standing armor with protruding pteruges. There's the trophy statue from Rhodes and some Antonine sculptures in Rome. So, I'm inclined to see the artist who created Severus' stele as following the same tradition.
Quote:in the translation of Suetonius by Philemon Holland he dose mention a cuirass as being a quilted leather coat at times with iron plates.
I think perhaps Philemon Holland has taken liberties with the text, Brian. In Life of Galba 19, Suetonius refers only to a lorica lintea ("linen corselet").
That may well be correct about Holland however in his translation Galba 19 he also mentions a linen jack; so can he be relating to Galba 11 where he mentions the coat armour assuming metal plates maybe.
Then of course we cannot rule out that the Romans did not have this kind of armour, for indeed where Nathan has given us the tombstone of Calidius Severus, might we not also be assuming this particular garment to be squamata.
Quote:Then of course we cannot rule out that the Romans did not have this kind of armour, for indeed where Nathan has given us the tombstone of Calidius Severus, might we not also be assuming this particular garment to be squamata.
Indeed. Roman writers could, when referring to linnen armor, be referring to lorica squamata, as lorica squamata is a coat of metal scales on a backing of linen. So lorica squamata is, in fact, "linnen armor". Perhaps ancient writers could simply be using slang, or there are errors in translation.
Tyler
Undergrad student majoring in Social Studies Education with a specialty in world history.
"conare levissimus videri, hostes enimfortasse instrumentis indigeant"
(Try to look unimportant-the enemy might be low on ammunition).
I think that what many refer to as linen armour is that which simply looks only to be linen from outward appearance so I don't think we can say that squamata can be considered as such. However as I have mentioned we just can't say that in Roman times there was no such thing as a quilted garment with metal plates fitted.
Another sculpture worth considering is shown in D,Amato's book 'Arms and Armour of the Imperial Roman Soldier', Barnsley 2009.
A detail of the relief from Salona of late Republicam or early imperial date is illustrated on page 127, fig 158.
What appears is apparently a scale shirt, although 'the scales' in proportion to the size of the garment are very large. The effect is once again more like quilting and it is perhaps surprising that D'Amato, who normally endorses the use of non-metallic armour did not think that the garment was fabric. The sculptor gives the impression that the protection extends up to and around the neck, like a gorget. I will leave this to someone like Dan or Brian to say whether that is practical or not.
However, the sculptor also appears to have indicated the reinforcing bar down the centre of each 'scale', including those around the neck. This does suggest that scale was what was intended and indeed is what D'Amato concluded.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
I would like to have D'Amato's book for the photos but I've had a quick read of some of the text and believe that I would be tearing pages out in frustration if I owned a copy. Personally I don't think that iconographical evidence is much use for armour analysis. Interpretations can be twisted to fit any theory you like. D'Amato seems particularly adept at this.
Quote:...What appears is apparently a scale shirt, although 'the scales' in proportion to the size of the garment are very large. The effect is once again more like quilting and it is perhaps surprising that D'Amato, who normally endorses the use of non-metallic armour did not think that the garment was fabric. The sculptor gives the impression that the protection extends up to and around the neck, like a gorget...
The sculptor was careful enough to indicate that 'the scales' bend, especially in the neck area.
[attachment=5312]pic.JPG[/attachment]
M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER (Alexander Kyrychenko) LEG XI CPF
The sculptor wasn't careful about anything. If it is to scale then the gladius is about 6 inches wide. Not sure how to interpret it but scale armour (either metal or leather) would be one option. Quilted textile would be another. It also looks like the previously-mentioned jack of plates. You can't treat any of these illustrations like photos. All that can really be said is that it is probably armour since it is depicted with a sword.
Quote:In the re- constructions and original sources illustrated in the two books, those garments which appear to be stuffed with material in tubes are worn both under armour and on their own without armour although some may be worn over armour.
None of the surviving examples are made from stuffed tubes. The stitches go through the stuffing. That can't happen if the tubes were made before being stuffed. The garment is stuffed like a pillow and then the vertical quilting is added. The garments that are intended to be worn under armour are considerably thinner than those intended to be worn over the top or as standalone armour. They are also tailored differently
