Missile range comparison

[Macedon]

The Sylloge Tacticorum defines a bowshot as a distance of 156 fathoms (about 290 m). Maurice in his Strategikon defines it as 300 paces (about 280 m). Scholarly estimates range from 133 to about 330m.

“Ἡ δὲ σύμμετρος τόξου βολὴ ὀργυιῶν ἂν εἴη μάλιστα ἑκατὸν πεντηκονταέξ, τῶν δ’ ἁπλῶν ὀργυιῶν καλουμένων ἑκατὸν ἑβδομήκοντα ἔγγιστα, ἢ τὸ πλεῖστον ἑκατὸν ὀγδοήκοντα.”, Anonyma Tactica Byzantina, Sylloge tacticorum, ch.43, p.11, l.1

“Καὶ στρεφόμενοι οἱ σεκοῦνδοι, τουτέστιν οἱ ὑπὸ τὸν δεκάρχην, ἐξέρχονται διάστημά τι ἄχρι τριακοσίων βημάτων ἤτοι σκελισμάτων, τοσοῦτον ὥστε μὴ δύνασθαι τὰς βαλλομένας παρὰ τῶν ἐναντίων σαγίττας ἑκατέρωθεν βλάπτειν τοὺς νώτους τῶν ἀντιβλεπόντων, ἀλλ’ ἐν τῷ εὐκαίρῳ τόπῳ πίπτειν αὐτάς.”, (Pseudo-)Mauricius Tact., Strategicon (sub nomine Mauricii Imperatoris vel Urbicii), B.12, ch.8.16, p.10, l.7

[Marja]

Which paces does Mauricius use? By my count, 300 Roman paces is about 450 meters. I can't find the section in the Dennis transition, which divides book 12 into sections A, B, C, and D, with separate chapter numbering in each. Is this the long infantry drill? Because there's no definition of the bowshot in this version.

Also, I'm still looking for info on the space that archers need and how closely they could form up.

[Dan Howard]

450 m is unreasonable. You'd need to halve that since the Roman pace was actually a "double pace". Maurice uses the Byzantine pace (bema), which was only about 2.5 feet.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

450 m is unreasonable. You'd need to halve that since the Roman pace was actually a "double pace". Maurice uses the Byzantine pace (bema), which was only about 2.5 feet.

Damn that's bigger than my average pace, which is 2.27 feet.

[Marja]

A pace is two steps. A Roman pace is five feet. A Roman mile is one thousand paces.

If and when people use paces to mean something shorter than two steps, it invites confusion, and it would help to use a more specific term, or to offer a specific definition, and to not call these paces. It isn't an issue with rhetorical distances, or easy-to-check distances, but missile ranges are neither, so its important to keep the measurements clear, not that I've been good at this.

If Mauricius is referring to individual steps, it would make sense to render that as steps, half-paces, or possibly yards, with some mention of the exact length.

It's especially important if we are dealing with both Latin Roman and Byzantine Roman measurements.

[Macedon]

Yep, a vema, pace, is a bit less than 1 m (94-95 cm usually).

"Pace" is the standard translation for the Greek vema/bema in all Greek text translations. The term in Byzantine years for 2 bemata is an orgyia, which in turn is normally translated as fathom.

[Dan Howard]

A pace is two steps. A Roman pace is five feet. A Roman mile is one thousand paces.

A Roman pace is two steps. I can't think of anyone else who uses this convention. A modern pace is generally defined as a single step. I agree that it is confusing. It would probably be better to translate any latin mention of a pace as "double pace" in modern English.

Yep, a vema, pace, is a bit less than 1 m (94-95 cm usually).

The wikipedia article says 2.5 feet and cites this source:

Erich Schilbach, Byzantinische Metrologie, cited by V.L. Ménage, Review of Speros Vryonis, Jr. The decline of medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the process of islamization from the eleventh through the fifteenth century, Berkeley, 1971; in Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies (University of London) 36:3 (1973), pp. 659-661

Easy to remember since it would make a bema exactly half the distance of a Roman pace.

[Macedon]

According to Schilbach, a Byzantine foot would be 31.23 cm, which would make a bema (equals 3 Byzantine/Greek etc feet and not 2.5), 93.69cm. This is one of the measurements I have been personally using as a standard, although it still is an approximation.

As is repeatedly given in the sources, 2 podes (feet) equal one peches (cubit) and 1.5 pecheis equals 1 bema. Thus, 3 Byzantine (Greek) feet equal 1 bema (pace).

I cannot say I remember any comments as to the Byzantine pace being in reality less than 3 feet, the 2.5 wikipedia asserts. I do not have Schilbach's work at hand at the moment but according to all the sources this is not the case.

[Marja]

So, at a rough estimate, a Byzantine bema/vema is just over one English yard?

Also, I grew up with the one pace = two steps rule. I don't remember how I first learned it, and I don't know if it's region/dialect specific. I know the other use is also found in American English.

[Dan Howard]

According to Schilbach, a Byzantine foot would be 31.23 cm, which would make a bema (equals 3 Byzantine/Greek etc feet and not 2.5), 93.69cm. This is one of the measurements I have been personally using as a standard, although it still is an approximation.

As is repeatedly given in the sources, 2 podes (feet) equal one peches (cubit) and 1.5 pecheis equals 1 bema. Thus, 3 Byzantine (Greek) feet equal 1 bema (pace).

I cannot say I remember any comments as to the Byzantine pace being in reality less than 3 feet, the 2.5 wikipedia asserts. I do not have Schilbach's work at hand at the moment but according to all the sources this is not the case.

But a Greek foot could be anywhere from 0.29 m to 0.34 m depending on how one defines a stade.

[Macedon]

Yes.

By the way, the quote you are giving is not from Leo's Tactica. It is actually part of the Sylloge Tacticorum, whose author we do not know and a few of its chapters were included in an 1854 edition of the Tactica. It is the same quote I gave. Did Dennis add these in his translation?

[Marja]

I don't have any translation of the Sylloge Tacticorum, except for a Latin translation of the Tactica [presumably the additional books there are the ones your referring to?].

[Macedon]

I don't have any translation of the Sylloge Tacticorum, except for a Latin translation of the Tactica.

Well, Leo's Tactica is comprised of 20 chapters (diataxeis). The other 12 chapters (from this 1854 work I mentioned, I guess these are the ones (chapters) included in the work you have) (32-35, 38,39,41-43, 53-55) are actually from Sylloge Tacticorum and not from the Tactica.

[Macedon]

But a Greek foot could be anywhere from 0.29 m to 0.34 m depending on how one defines a stade.

Correct. This is why I said that all estimations are approximations. However, Schilbach often serves as a standard. He has made calculations specifically regarding the "Byzantine" foot, IIRC, by taking into consideration certain measurements in Hagia Sophia. As far as the Greeks in general are concerned, unfortunately, their metric systems were as diverse (of course with slight, yet measurable differences) as their calendars, their coinage and their dialects...

However, there is usually no difference regarding the analogies between the different metric units. Thus, a foot would be slightly different in Chalcida than it was in Athens, but the number of feet in a cubit would remain stable.

[Dan Howard]

Ah. Many thanks.