Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Traians column
#1
i just found a new book about the Traians column.
just in german but it looks very interesting!!

[attachment=5613]Coverbild.JPG[/attachment]


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
surname: fee

pax gaudium ovo placenta ;-)
Reply
#2
Do you actually have the book to read?

That's quite a nice job that's been done with the colouring, although it's a shame they didn't photoshop in some weapons as well.
Reply
#3
The book isn't published yet, but will be very soon.
What I've seen of Ritchies work it shows a very interesting view on the Column. At least I'm highly looking forward to receiving my copy so I can see what he has to offer.
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#4
I got my copy this morning. Although the problem of colours and polychromy is discussed in the book it is absolutely not clear, what the colours chosen for the pictures are based on. There is only a vague statement in the beginning, stating that the colours are chosen after a work by Treu (1843-1921) who discovered some traces of encaustic paint on the column. [p. 10] It goes on to say that the colours chosen for this book are based on effect (blue or yellow next to red, as it makes the colours appear brighter, etc.) [p.11]. There is a short discussion about the choice of colours for cloaks an tunics, which is almost entirely based on (in this regard IMO completely anchronistic) Late Roman sources (about Decius, Valerian, Galienus) and a not exactly source-critical quote of Ovid F. I, 79 ff. If one looks at the work of Graham Sumner about Roman military clothes, it quickly gets clear that this use of sources is not only extremely eclectic, but also completely insufficient. The Literture list at the end of the book is, hm, very short, and for some reason distinguishes between "primary literature" and "secondary literature" instead of "sources" and "literature". [p.145]

So: As far as I can see this book suggests that the colour-versions of the reliefs / scenes on TC were so or similar as shown. However, this can not be verified or checked by the reader, since the necessary references or explanations are missing. Thus you get a book with many (in fact quite nice) coloured versions of the reliefs on TC, without of any proof of their authenticity. At the same time the book misses to discuss the problem of archaizing aspects in Roman art as well as the problem of interpretation of polychromy in Roman art, although this is one of the central points in the also here often-quoted "Bunte Götter" book, namely that the represenational art often chose colours for their composition and effect, not necessarily as identical to their natural "model". In that regard the book also draws too many uncritical conclusions in cross-reference to photographies of reenactors.

Had I seen it in advance, I would not have bought it. The pictures are really nice, yet in the published form are mere "fantasy", as the choice of color(s) cannot be checked or verified in any way.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Reply
#5
Thank you for the excellent review. It's a shame the use of colour wasn't better substantiated. Still, it's better or more interesting to argue that it was coloured in some way (even if the projected colours are entirely hypothetical) than that it was originally meant to be viewed solely in monochrome.

Out of interest, does the subject of the missing weapons ever come up in the book? Assuming these to be brightly polished (at least on installation) to recall full size weapons, I imagine they would have caught sunlight spectacularly and been an important component of the decoration themselves.
Reply
#6
Thanks very much for the review. I have just ordered the book on Amazon because I buy everything that comes out on TC. The question of colour is a vexed one. I would say that if the Column was never painted, then it was, by definition, unfinished (there are no indications that the sculpting was unfinished, down to fingernails and belt-buckles right to the end of the project at the top). It is safe to assume that all Roman sculpture had a polychrome coverage, unless proved otherwise. On the other hand, the many attempt at detailed observation on the shaft, including my own, have found little incontrovertible trace surviving. Nineteenth century scholars became very excited about 'traces', but these were largely the result of verdegris rainwash from the statue on the top. I am convinced that some of the sculpture was composed with colour in mind and there is plenty of evidence from other monuments that paint was applied (found on the Arch of Titus in Rome and the Arch of Trajan at Benevento). That being said, the 'natural' palate range is debatable. I will read the new book carefully to see if it based on direct data or wishful thinking. Mention has been made in postings of the metal insert weapons. These were a separate process of drilling hands and fitting metal (presumably copper-alloy) items, mostly shafted weapons, but some bladed weapons, tools and the occasional standard element. However, the sculptors often did not carve the marble in high enough relief to allow this work to be carried out, so many human figures wave their arms around rather aimlessly (e.g. Dacian archers in fort siege scenes)!
Reply
#7
So now you can be certain the the End of Days has arrived: both Bishop and Coulston are here.

One of the joys of digital technology is colouring-in things that are without it. More impressive would be the reinsertion of the missing metallic components and even a browsable, 3D rendering of the Column. And no, I'm not going to do it. Too busy with other things.

Mike Bishop
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
Reply
#8
I tried out this digital coloring :-) Much easier than I thought...
Pics are not based on any evidence whatsoever, yet still may look convincing... ^^



I made these for our homepage:

http://www.leg-xiii-gem.de/FAGUA/F.A.G.U.A..html

May be copied for personal use only.

[Image: GlanumFarbe.jpg]
[Image: MainzFarbe.jpg]
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Reply
#9
The column that was painted is not in doubt. The colors used here are intended to give only an impression of how it might have looked like! In the book it is stated quite clearly. Most colors happens all by itself. A sky is blue, the grass is green, the trees are green and brown, roman walls are white and the skin has its own color. The text is all explained very clearly why he chose those colors. It is not about the question of why a tunic was yellow or blue. You must be able to recognize the characters. A green tunic in the forest makes no sense. This results in most of the colors by itself
For the first time, the column is shown as it might have looked like.
And that's the point here.
Here also for the first time each scene is explained.
What is a adlocutio or Suovetaurilien sacrifice?
For example, I dyed the ships to the wall paintings from Pompeii.
The images have been straightened and also partially repaired. Most images in the column, many of us have never seen. This in itself is unique.
Where else can you see the column completely?
It is the first time that you can see that.
And as I said, it is only a possibility, as it might have looked like. And this is also in the book.
Confusedmile:
Ritchie Pogo
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.cohors-praetoria.eu">www.cohors-praetoria.eu
Reply
#10
I've read the book and think it is great!
All talk about the Taians column but hardly anyone has seen it completely.
This is now possible.
The explanations are logical and understandable.
When I stood in front of the column, I could hardly see anything. A huge band where you can not see anything properly. Only with the color you can see the pictures really good. That makes a lot of fun now.
Only now you can see comb all the details that are otherwise I never noticed. Laurel wreaths on the helmets or the wonderful shield emblems. Super!
surname: fee

pax gaudium ovo placenta ;-)
Reply
#11
How did you come up with these colors?
What colors are your reasons?
Why your tunics and shields are white?
You criticize the colors in the book and yourself have your picture painted without basis.
I'm glad that there is finally a book about the Trajan column. And I think that I am not the only one.
Quote:I tried out this digital coloring :-) Much easier than I thought...
Pics are not based on any evidence whatsoever, yet still may look convincing... ^^



I made these for our homepage:

http://www.leg-xiii-gem.de/FAGUA/F.A.G.U.A..html

May be copied for personal use only.

[Image: GlanumFarbe.jpg]
[Image: MainzFarbe.jpg]
surname: fee

pax gaudium ovo placenta ;-)
Reply
#12
Quote:Mention has been made in postings of the metal insert weapons. These were a separate process of drilling hands and fitting metal (presumably copper-alloy) items, mostly shafted weapons, but some bladed weapons, tools and the occasional standard element. However, the sculptors often did not carve the marble in high enough relief to allow this work to be carried out, so many human figures wave their arms around rather aimlessly (e.g. Dacian archers in fort siege scenes)!
Very interesting, thanks for that. I didn't know that the addition of weaponry was impossible in some contexts.


Quote:More impressive would be the reinsertion of the missing metallic components and even a browsable, 3D rendering of the Column. And no, I'm not going to do it. Too busy with other things.
Aww. Still, the internet is badly missing a resource like this.


Quote:How did you come up with these colors?
What colors are your reasons?
Why your tunics and shields are white?
You criticize the colors in the book and yourself have your picture painted without basis.
I'm glad that there is finally a book about the Trajan column. And I think that I am not the only one.
I'm fairly sure there are quite a number of books and chapters on the Column (although admittedly not in mass market paperback form, as far as I'm aware). I think the point with the colouring is that since we don't know what colours were used, or even if naturalism was actually a goal, there's not really a right or wrong approach in this regard, and it was therefore inappropriate for the book to claim its approach was more than an (inadequately?) informed guess.

I have to admit I'd like to see more patterning on the clothing though.
Reply
#13
Quote:How did you come up with these colors?
What colors are your reasons?
Why your tunics and shields are white?
You criticize the colors in the book and yourself have your picture painted without basis.
I'm glad that there is finally a book about the Trajan column. And I think that I am not the only one.caiusbeerquitius wrote:
I tried out this digital coloring Much easier than I thought...
Pics are not based on any evidence whatsoever, yet still may look convincing... ^^
Errrm... the answer to your questions is right in the section of my text you quoted... Confusedmile: Wink
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Reply
#14
Christian, she is answering others criticisms and questions, and quoted your post as part of
the answer!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#15
Hooray! ;-)
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Reply


Forum Jump: