new pugio book from a RAT member

[Vindex]

My copy has arrived mile: so I just have to finish my current tome (Roxan's military diplomas) then this will get my full attention!

[Virilis]

My copy arrived today! At a quick glance the book looks very interesting indeed. The pictures, typological charts and line drawings are in my opinion superbly done and very clear. I like especially the idea behind the picture on page 21, where you can see a third century AD pugio being held in hand. In this way you can have a glimpse of the proportions of a real artefact. The pugio in question looks absolutely lethal with it's c. 30 cm blade! Now I have just have to read the book to give my opinion of it's context :wink: ...

[marcos]

Happy you liked it, Virilis, told by an old RAT member as you are, is particulary appreciated!

I remember very well that photo, I picked up it just on this purpose, is not easy -or quite impossible- understand how a late pugio (III period, in our classification) is big just from images, so I tried to let it perceptible by that image.

Speaking of which, after you have read the book, I'd love to know your opinion on the suggested classification of this weapon. This was one of the most hard, and in the meantime interested, point to be faced, we tried to propose a classification easy and clear, but of course I'm not sure I we reached the goal.
As we wrote in the book " “One of the greatest problems in the academic debate is that terminology identifies groups which do not actually exist as such. The modern historian needs to group together different civilisations (1).
Classification is a fundamental concept in the chronological research of a weapon. However, as I cannot but agree with the above-mentioned concept, the classification proposed here is consequently based on three main types, all possessing real and evident characteristics. That is to say that it only considers well-defined evolutionary differences and is not the fruit of the almost certainly differing styles and civilisations of the armourers who created the weapons.

[Virilis]

Yes, the transition to the considerably wider and longer blades of the pugios in the third century AD seems to happen parallel to the widening of the spatha blades too. I am especially interested in the sudden disappearing of the pugios in the 4th century AD. This leads to the concept of "semi-spathae" (mentioned by Vegetius). There must have been some kind of a sidearm in later context too, although the mention by Vegetius is isolated. Also Ammianus Marcellinus mentions this "accident with a pugio". Then again all possible semi-spathas from Christian Miks's book seem to be dated to the 3th century AD. I would love to have a copy of some of those "monster-blades" of late third century AD (one having a 38 cm blade!) and stretch the dating a bit and add it as a sidearm to my fourth century AD impression ;-) !

[Crispvs]

Goodness - how did I miss this until now?????? I must admit to being a little surprised not to have heard about it when it was in preparation. Thanks Caballo for letting me know about it!

Marco,

Naturally I am very interested. I know exactly what you mean about the difficulties of classification. I was due to present a paper at the RAT conference the year before last where I was going to set out a classification and full terminology for pugios and their sheaths in order to make more sense of the subject and bring some order to the confusing array of terminology which is presently in use. Unfortunately the breakdown of my marriage and consequent lack of funds meant that I had to cancel at short notice so could not present the paper. I did offer to write it up properly and submit it for a proceedings document but I don't think one was produced. Since then other frustrating distractions have got in the way of my proceeding any further.

For what it's worth I posted up one of my original nomenclature drawings here:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/22-roma...l?start=30

A PM is on its way.

Crispvs

[mcbishop]

To get you all worked up into an absolute pugio-driven lather, here's a reference a friend gave me only this week:

Istenič, J. (2012): 'Daggers of the Dangstetten type', Arheološki vestnik 63, 159–78

You can find an abstract here.

Mike Bishop

[marcos]

Crispus, we actually didn't know you were involved in pugiones, otherwise your cooperation would been precious. Too bad.
Btw, I hope you agree with our classification, in our humble opinion is enough clear and understandable but of course could be a bullshit as well, let me know your opinion, I care it.

Ps
the way of your Pm should be very long, is not still arrived since this morning :-)

[Vindex]

Providentially, I received the BAR in print catalogue this morning and it has this to say about BAR 2040 (International Series) Pugio - Gladius Brevis Est. History and technology of the Roman battle dagger.

"This book examines in depth the pugio (pl pugiones), a short dagger-sword and one of the weapons of choice of the Roman army - it was the weapon that killed Julius Caesar. Its riuch decoration and the use of precious metals have given it legendary status, which has been enhanced by a scarcity of literary sources and the lack of a clear axplanation of its function or the specific use the soldiers made of it. This book tries to fill this gap, basing its finds exclusively on undisputed data and sources. The study of the pugio takes us through the history and evolution of the Roman army itself."

(That's a very long first sentance ;-) !!!)

[marcos]

To whom it may concern, here a short preview of chapters is available.

[Tarbicus]

Istenič, J. (2012): 'Daggers of the Dangstetten type', Arheološki vestnik 63, 159–78

The paper's available to download from Janka Istenic's page, or from Academia.edu.

[Tarbicus]

Received my copy this week. Packed with information and a few surprises. A great read.

Marco, could you clarify whether evidence for a metal finishing ribbon around the edge of the handle was present on any of the Type 1 daggers?

[marcos]

Well, Tarbicus, imho is quite impossible a sure answer to your question. Such ribbons around the edge of the handle were indeed present in many of the type 1 exemplars but obviously is hard to believe it was in any of them. This is the typical uncertainty related to ancient weapons, none can have a sure thought.

Anyhow, happy you liked the book, I guess what surprises you are referring to.

I tried to dowload the Janka's paper, but wasn't impossible to me. Do you have a pdf copy?

[Tarbicus]

I recommend registering with academia.ru as it has lots of papers, including 'An early Roman dagger from the vicinity of Štanjel' also by Janka Istenic. Their area of interest for Roman Army and Roman military equipment have a number of authors, including Mike Bishop.