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Phalanx questions
#1
I saw someone on another forum post that it was possible for pike men to shift their pikes to the sides or rear in case they needed to face a threat. I believe this was only possible if you were in the rear of the phalanx unit, but I might be wrong on that.

Anyways this kind of brings me to my second question. How effective were reserve phalanx units? I know Alexander used one at Gaugamela but I would like to look beyond this example. Historically and theoretically.

Lastly, could the legion really achieve much ground head to head against a phalanx? There's Cynoscephalae and Pydna where the legion was forced back, but are these fair examples?
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#2
Yes, there are many examples when bodies of men with sarissae or(long) spears changed face or projected multiple faces to the enemy. Of course, pikes and spears would not just be turned around but first lifted upright and then, as the bearer changed face, they would again be projected forward.

Reserve phalanx units? First, you have to define what you mean by phalanx. There are multiple examples of phalanxes with spears or swords standing as rear lines or in reserve (not necessary the same thing). Double lines of sarissophoroi was not usual but could be implemented. Gaugamela is not such an example, for the second line was formed by other heavy troops, presumably hoplites. Sellasia would be an example where it is unclear how Antigonus' phalanx fought. Initially, it was deployed in a double line but then it somehow co-operated with the promachos (first in battle) line, maybe it was used to increase its depth or density... Then you will have to define reserve. In Gaugamela, the second line was not actually a reserve but a line tasked to protect the rear of the front phalanx as it was sure to be surrounded. Imagine it like a plaesion (square) system. When we are talking about how multiple phalanxes worked, my mind mostly goes to the Roman system (still much open to debate) and of course its Byzantine continuation. As a possible example (others insist that the Libyans of Hannibal were armed with spears or even swords..) of actual sarisa-bearing troops being kept in reserve one could discuss the tactics of Hannibal in Italy, when he used the Libyans in reserve in multiple (successful) efforts to attack the Roman flanks.

The third question I do not exactly get. Could the Romans beat a phalanx front to front? Or "push" them back. Truth is that the legionary line never managed to defeat a sarisa bearing phalanx in a frontal assault. The Roman victory always rested in other sectors of the battleground. In certain parts of the somtimes mile(s) long lines they might get the best of it but they were generally violently pushed back and most often routed. An exception here might be the wars against Mithridates, but then, the phalangites are attested to have actually broken before any combat had taken place. Another example is Pydna, where the phalanx actually fragmented and became easy prey to the Romans who had first retreated quite a distance but again we are talking about a battle where the flanks of the Macedonians were deserted from their cavalry support and this usually is more a reason for a phalanx to be routed than actual Greek terrain as in Pydna. In Cynoscephalae, the Romans attacked and routed the left wing of the phalanx but it was still in the process of forming up and was not in position, so it was more like a column at the time...
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#3
Quote:Yes, there are many examples when bodies of men with sarissae or(long) spears changed face or projected multiple faces to the enemy. Of course, pikes and spears would not just be turned around but first lifted upright and then, as the bearer changed face, they would again be projected forward.

Do you have these examples to post, by chance?

Quote:Reserve phalanx units? First, you have to define what you mean by phalanx. There are multiple examples of phalanxes with spears or swords standing as rear lines or in reserve (not necessary the same thing). Double lines of sarissophoroi was not usual but could be implemented. Gaugamela is not such an example, for the second line was formed by other heavy troops, presumably hoplites. Sellasia would be an example where it is unclear how Antigonus' phalanx fought. Initially, it was deployed in a double line but then it somehow co-operated with the promachos (first in battle) line, maybe it was used to increase its depth or density... But when we are talking about how multiple phalanxes worked, my mind mostly goes to the Roman system (still much open to debate) and of course its Byzantine continuation. As a possible example (others insist that the Libyans of Hannibal were armed with spears or even swords..) of actual sarisa-bearing troops being kept in reserve one could discuss the tactics of Hannibal in Italy, when he used the Libyans in reserve in multiple (successful) efforts to attack the Roman flanks.

Sorry for not being clear. What I meant by phalanx is that the troops are armed with a pike. Not a body of troops massed together like the Greek authors actually meant.

You answered the other question I asked.
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#4
In Magnesia, Romans against Seleucids, when it was time to split, since the battle had been lost on the left, the Macedonian phalanx formed squares with sarisae projecting to every direction, which the Romans could not (according to the acount of the battle) attack.

In a battle against the Taulantians, Alexander had his men perform drills in front of the enemy and deployed them in various formations, certainly with evolutions that required change of face.

Strictly speaking about hellenistic sarisa bearing phalanxes (contrary to common belief, the word survived and was used also for Byzantine long spears, albeit not often), the real battle examples are of course few, such an evolution would anyways only be performed if something extraordinary would happen, but the process is thoroughly discussed in the manuals of Aelian, Asclepiodotos and Arrian and was not really different to what was going on in any other phalanx. Of course there was no way that the sarisa or spear would just be swept to the side. They would lift it upright, the man would change face and then the spear would again be employed in an attack position. There is also a countermarch (exeligmos - how a unit facing front should about face if necessary), which is called Macedonian.

Of course there were also variations, like for example the last half ranks of the phalanx about facing and in effect creating a second phalanx, deployment in rectangle formations that were multi-faceted etc.
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#5
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#6
Agree with George.

To add some experimental archaeology here:

http://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpress.com...xperience/

Mithiridates phalangites were ill-trained or raw recruits and may have felt even worse than me in my first contact with the sarissa

While transsfering my experience to "Koryvantes" we found out that you cannot change frontage while enngaded. Its easier to lift the sarissa vertically in order to change direction.
More info will cone when the Melbourn Hoplitikon completes a session with their pikes by the end of the month.

In the Taulandians example plese note the pike block was not in contact with the enemy.

In all battles of good infantry vs pike blocks the issue was decided in the flanks.
In Cynos Cefalae the Aetolians flanked the Macedoninas with their light troops and cavalry.

Same thing in Pydna - explanation here:

https://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpress.co...na-168-bc/

and here:

http://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpress.com...istic-era/
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#7
Quote:While transsfering my experience to "Koryvantes" we found out that you cannot change frontage while enngaded. Its easier to lift the sarissa vertically in order to change direction.

I would agree. I cannot see any easy method for a phalanx engaged with the enemy to either change about or to change its frontage (in density); the more so when engaged with another of its kind. File "insertion" might be accomplished when fighting enemies outreached (Romans or Greek hoplites) but I wonder just how easy that would be amidst a pushing, driving, sarisa shoving block of phalangites. Easy on a training ground but perhaps not so amid those phalangites furiously poking and shoving to stay alive.

Turning about could, on any reasonable assessment, only be accomplished by disengaging so as phalangites might manufacture the space (and order) to raise sarisae before "facing to shield" or "to spear" (or "counter-marching"). Polybius notes this at Cynoschephalae (18.26.4) in saying that "it is impossible for the phalanx to turn right about face" and the context (describing the battle) is a phalanx engaged. He enlarges upon this in his (in)famous dissertation which follows. Here (18.29 - 30.4; esp 30.4) he describes how the front ranks are fenced in by rear lowered sarisae and the the rear closes up in the "charge". Thus the phalanx's energies are focused on the single direction: forward. Whilst not strictly impossible, the rear ranks (sarisae raised) turning about is difficult to imagine. In the din and heat of battle such a change might likely shatter a phalanx - especially one such as the victorious Macedonian right at Cynoscephalae where the phalanx is actively advancing and pushing back the Romans when attacked in the rear.

Where we have a description of a phalanx altering order and facing, it is unengaged or disengaging. Off the top off my head that would include Gabiene where Eumenes' victorious phalanx disengaged from a routed opposition and formed a square; Magnesia (as George mentioned) where it had not engaged; Hydaspes where Alexander orders the phalanx (disengaged as the narrative makes plain 5.17.6-7 esp. 7) to close up and advance.

Sellasia is another matter. George and I well know this and it has been discussed extensively on another thread. Suffice to say I believe the double phalanx closed up from the rear in one last thrust. Others see it a the rear part of the double phalanx inserting into the forward part to "close up" into synaspismos and advance uphill against the Lacedaemonian phalanx.


Quote:In all battles of good infantry vs pike blocks the issue was decided in the flanks.
In Cynos Cefalae the Aetolians flanked the Macedoninas with their light troops and cavalry.

Same thing in Pydna

The Aetolian cavalry helped to drive the Macedonian light troops back up the hill at Cynoscephelae. The victory came on the Macedonian left where the "greater part" of the phalanx was still deploying as Philip's right charged. That part of the right of the Macedonian phalanx that was not quite ready followed after the troops Philip ordered to "double their depth and close up to the right" and lagged behind. The left of the Macedonian phalanx was still cresting the hill in column and was, along with the 'laggards' of the right, put to flight. It is then that a Roman tribune takes "not more" than twenty maniples around and behind Philip's successful right to seal victory.
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