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Roxolani and Iaziges
#15
Alanus wrote:
Quote:The Iaz were NOT Sarmatians. And they did NOT have cataphracts, and therefore did not use a contus. This "legend" has filtered though so many quasi-historical books that it has somehow been accepted as fact. For good info on who the Iaz were, read Janos Harmatta's book on the Sarmatians and their language. The Roxolani WERE Sarmatians, being the lead group of Alanic society that followed the Iaz into Pannonia. But to playact with "Iazages," either in Britain or on gameboards, is not following history nor the culture of a group that were related to Scythians, not to Sarmatians.

Sorry Alanus, I got carried away with the use of the kontus. I was curious about the 5500 Iazyges sent to Britain and I put in the query about the use of the kontus as an extra question hoping someone would know a bit more than myself. I read a piece by a certain S.M. Perevalov called "The Sarmatian Lance and The Sarmatian Horse-Riding Posture" and he tickled my interest in the use of the Kontus. My main interest is the Roxolani who must have been fearsome to fight against.Below is a couple of paragraphs from his article.

Quote:To define our research, it is necessary to explore which Sarmatians first used
the new type of cavalry, with the lance as their main weapon, and when they did
so. Since our knowledge derives from Greek and Roman writers, we should specify
that we focus on when this new invention became known in the classical world.
The radical change in Sarmatian military techniques is best seen among the
Roksolans. Two sources—Strabon and Tacitus—with a difference of 100 years,
left notable evidence about this tribe’s armor and tactics.1 Strabon (VII.3.17,
p. 306), writing about the war between the Roksolans and Diophantus, Mithridates
Eupator’s military leader around 110 B.C.E., describes them as lightly armed forces,
apparently cavalry, because he is talking about nomads. Their defensive armament
consisted of raw leather coats of mail and wicker shields, offensive armament—
short lance, bow, and sword. They were tactically as weak as “any barbarian tribe”
and were utterly defeated by the Greek phalange, which was much smaller (6,000
against 50,000). Strabon does not find anything distinctive in the Roksolans’ armament
compared to the Scythians and other barbarians: “the majority of other
barbarians are armed in a similar way.”
Tacitus (Hist. I. 79) presents a strikingly different view in his account about the
foray of the Roksolan army of 9,000 into the Roman Mesia in 69 C.E. We see a real
revolution in armament, methods of protecting the body, and tactics. The long
lance and heavy long sword (gladius) have become the Roksolans’ main weapon;
bows are no longer mentioned. They are shielded by solid coats of mail with metal
or tanned leather scales, impenetrable to arrows; replacing shields. Finally, they
utilize the effective tactics of frontal attack: “when they attack in squadrons (turmas),
it is unlikely that any array [acies] would sustain their attack.” The failure in the
battle with the Romans of 69 was caused by the snow turning to slush, which
prevented the Sarmatians from using their terrible weapons during the battle order.
These very Sarmatians had wiped out two Roman cohorts in the previous winter.
Therefore, the revolution in the Sarmatians’ military techniques should be placed
in the period between Strabon’s “Geography” (the first quarter of the first century)
and Tacitus’s “History” (the first decade of the second century). R. Syme has tried
to specify the date. Basing his speculations on the first mentions of a distinctive
Sarmatian weapon, the lance (sarmaticus contus), by Roman poets of the end of
Flavius’s period—Stacius (Achill. II. 132–33, Silius (Pun. XV. 684), and, most
importantly, Valerius Flaccus (Argon. VI. 162; pp. 231–38)—he dated the Romans’
first precise mention of special Sarmatian tactics to the period of Domitianus’s
wars on the Danube (89–92 C.E.).
. I was just wondering was it contact with the Romans that brought about this change in tactics or possibly pressure from the Alans. Just an extra question. What is the title of Janos Harmatta's book as I will try to find it.

Below is the link to access this article if you haven't already got it.

http://archive.org/details/TheSarmatianL...ingPosture

Regards
Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
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Messages In This Thread
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 01-09-2013, 10:02 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-10-2013, 04:35 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-12-2013, 01:08 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-16-2013, 04:03 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-18-2013, 02:36 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-18-2013, 02:58 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 01-24-2013, 10:30 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-25-2013, 07:00 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-25-2013, 07:05 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-25-2013, 07:48 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-25-2013, 09:50 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-26-2013, 02:06 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-26-2013, 02:12 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 01-26-2013, 08:16 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Iosephus - 01-27-2013, 05:05 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-30-2013, 01:47 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 01-30-2013, 08:26 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-31-2013, 02:27 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-31-2013, 04:45 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Sutoris - 02-01-2013, 01:22 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 02-01-2013, 12:18 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2013, 04:46 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 02-05-2013, 10:53 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Renatus - 02-06-2013, 12:14 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-22-2013, 06:56 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 02-23-2013, 02:58 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-23-2013, 07:02 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 02-23-2013, 11:19 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 02-26-2013, 01:18 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Sutoris - 02-27-2013, 02:50 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 02-27-2013, 03:09 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by eduard - 02-28-2013, 12:45 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-28-2013, 08:16 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by eduard - 02-28-2013, 05:36 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-28-2013, 08:22 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Nadeem - 02-28-2013, 08:24 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-01-2013, 01:34 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by eduard - 03-01-2013, 02:23 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-01-2013, 11:53 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-01-2013, 11:25 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-04-2013, 10:04 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-04-2013, 10:39 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-04-2013, 11:54 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-05-2013, 11:17 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-05-2013, 11:26 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-11-2013, 08:32 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Folkert van Wijk - 03-11-2013, 10:32 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Sutoris - 03-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-12-2013, 12:28 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-24-2013, 10:00 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by eduard - 03-25-2013, 01:18 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-27-2013, 09:49 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-27-2013, 10:04 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-27-2013, 10:17 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-27-2013, 10:18 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-27-2013, 10:40 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-28-2013, 12:20 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-28-2013, 04:46 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-28-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Folkert van Wijk - 12-01-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-02-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Folkert van Wijk - 12-03-2015, 07:52 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-03-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-03-2015, 07:24 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-03-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-04-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-04-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-04-2015, 01:40 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-04-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-04-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 12-28-2015, 11:41 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-29-2015, 03:20 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Nathan Ross - 12-29-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-29-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-29-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-29-2015, 07:16 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-30-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 12-30-2015, 03:11 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-30-2015, 10:14 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 12-31-2015, 03:40 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-31-2015, 06:22 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 01-01-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 01-02-2016, 02:32 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 01-02-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 01-02-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 01-11-2016, 12:49 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 01-11-2016, 02:24 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by BoBoOlson - 11-20-2020, 09:33 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by BoBoOlson - 11-22-2020, 11:29 AM

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