Sarmatian horses

[Alanus]

David,

You pulled that quote out of context. That's not what I said, if you read the entire sentence in its continuity. Surgury has made great strides recently... including reattachment of "lost" items. illy:

[Alanus]

Moi,

Good point. It seems (almost) obvious that some Thracian and Sarmatian horse traits are now carried by modern breeds, such as the Dale. And I think we can add the Vandalusian to that category. I remember a post here on RAT claimed the Vandalusian originally came from Africa... because the breed's characteristics were also found in Africa. It was probably the other way around, the Vandalusian's traits arriving in Africa through the Alans who were a major portion of the Vandal exodus.

[M. Demetrius]

You pulled that quote out of context. That's not what I said, if you read the entire sentence in its continuity.

I've been taking lessons from modern journalists. Heh. :whistle:

[Michael Kerr]

Mallory in his book "In Search Of The Indo-Europeans" adds that in Indic Horse Sacrifices, it's not just a matter of sacrificing second string horses, the king or chief selected a prized stallion to dedicate the sacrifice to the divine representatives of his warrior class, it was set free to wander for a full year with 400 warriors trailling behind to ensure that the course of the stallion was neither interfered with nor that it had contact with mares. But I supposed the loss of a prized stallion and the added expense of 400 warriors for a year was more than made up for in greater prestige amongst his people and neighbours.
Regards
Michael
Kerr

[Michael Kerr]

Hi, just to continue on Sarmatian horses, both Strabo (Geography 7.4.8) and Ammianus (17.12.3) both describe Sarmatian horses as small in stature but spirited and difficult to manage so they were gelded to make them more docile. Does this mean Romans or Greeks didn't geld their stallions as a rule?
Regards
Michael Kerr

[Vindex]

I am not so sure it is an assumption rather than a rule.

There is certainly epigraphic evidence showing a cavalryman astride a stallion. I am sure there is Greek evidence too, but I am not near my references at the moment.

A lot depends on the nature of the horse and how they are handled. Pura Raza Espagnole (PREs or what used to be called Andalusian) stallions have brilliant natures and can even be kept relatively close to mares without causing any problems. Some Arab strains are the same. Most stallions are fine if handled carefully; stabling them with mares is a no no (particularly if the fashion for believing the Romans stabled their horses all in together persists!);, and a gelding wouldn't thank you much for being in between the two, either. But some geldings can keep their stallion "behaviour" if gelded late, and then there's always the rig (a duff gelding job!!).

It would be another assumption to say that more feral stallions - ie those from huge herds - may be more aggressive in their behaviour if kept in their natural state as they fight to keep their mares and foals safe, but for the good of the herd, the stallion has to be rotated and either passed on to another breeding strain or slaughtered.

[Michael Kerr]

Vindex wrote:

But some geldings can keep their stallion "behaviour" if gelded late, and then there's always the rig (a duff gelding job!!).

Just while we are on gelding, Has anyone read "They Rode Into Europe" by Miklos Jankovich. Most of the book covers late middle ages material but he does discuss Scythians and Sarmatian horses and skills as well as Ancient horse breeds. He goes on to discuss how Scythians used to perform the "orchidectomy" on their colts by crushing the seminal cord with a wooden mallet. Ouch!
He says this custom of nomadic breeders goes back to the reindeer herdsmen who up to recent times performed the operation in the most primitive way, by severing the seminal cord with their teeth. The author then mentions the Chertomlyk Vase from Crimea done by Greek artist (I think I posted a pic earlier in this thread). Image below.

[attachment=7361]chertomlykvase.jpg[/attachment]
For some reason the ropes are missing on the vase but the image shows Scythians preparing to castrate a colt. An interesting book if you are interested in horses. He also relates an interesting story told to Marco Polo about the extinction of ancient Turkoman horses. He was told that in the province of Badasan (in northern Afghanistan) there was a breed of horses that carried the mark of Bucepalus on their foreheads (either a star or a crescent) and only the king's uncle possessed the strain and he refused to let the king have some of them so the king condemned him to death and in revenge the uncle's widow destroyed the entire stud. Don't know if its true but a good story anyway. I don't know if story has been sanitized by Christian writers in reference to Alexander's horse Bucephalus as crescent and star seems to me to hold more significance to Muslims.
PS. What is the right age to geld a colt? Veering off topic again but I notice in local horse racing that a lot of 3 year old colts who don't perform come back as 4 year old geldings.

Regards
Michael Kerr

[Vindex]

Opinions differ, but gelding at about one year old is appropriate, and ungelded colts should not run with the mares past maturity (possibly as a 3 y o) because they will mount anything, including their mothers!

The longer you leave it, the more bolshy they are hence my comment about stallion behaviour. Geldings can be as territorial as stallions as I have just witnessed since my yard owner has just bought another gelding pony and we released him in with her current gelding and my mare.

Funny really, as Solitaire lets the boys fight, but she's the only entire in the field (and has a MUCH deeper call than they do :evil