Sarmatian horses

[Vindex]

Games like this are only dangerous if you don't abide by the rules! No one really wants to damage their horses in these exchanges.

When I played polo, however, sometimes the horses did not abide by the rules and were far more competitive than their riders! But you're right; my ponies were always polite and stood looking at me on the floor (again) wondering what I was doing there. They were probably a bit annoyed I'd stopped the game...

My many crashes on the polo field convinced me that face guards (masks?) were not all they were cracked up to be (pardon the pun) as watching a few people go head first into the ground at pace always required an ambulance and a good dentist whereas a fall wearing an ordinary helmet may leave one with a broken peak and a head ache, but not that often hospitalised.

Edit: By the looks of it, the chaps in the photograph look as if they are wearing Soviet tank crew safety head gear!

[Michael Kerr]

Hi, thanks for replies. I tried a search for buzkashi on site and nothing came up. I feel a bit silly referring to modern polo as genteel after what Vindex said about injuries on polo field but it is interesting what Vindex said about behaviour of horses in game so maybe a good way to train younger horses to get used to situations of confusion similar to battlefield. Regarding helmets on image, I am sure they were ex Soviet issue. Apparently they have set up a National Buzkashi League with uniforms etc in Afghanistan.
regards
Michael Kerr

[Vindex]

The only genteel thing about polo are the jet set watching the game from the safety of the side lines... :-P

Young horses introduced to polo were allowed to keep their manes for their first year. This let everyone know it was a novice/young horse and the rules dictate that you did not barge, bump or hassle the horse with the mane. After it's probation, the mane was shaved off (hogged) and all bets were off! This sort of tradition has roots somewhere, and it may just be a hang over of times past.

I will add that most polo ponies LOVE to barge and jostle and then gallop around like loonies chasing the ball, and the more experienced ones would follow the game - watching the ball and anticipating the rider's moves. Really, really helpful when you have a playing partnership like this, and I would like to think cavalry horses learned their job as quickly.

All the other ponies in the game had their manes hogged. Whether this was to stop the hair getting in the way of reins etc or because it was a throw back to the British cavalry (which embraced polo with passion when they came across it in India and modern Pakistan) is a debatable matter.

[Alanus]

Hi, I have just finished a book "The Endurance Horse" by Ann Hyland who also wrote "Equus The Horse in the Roman World". In this book she stated that the (I presume she is talking about the Roxolani as she keeps referring to the Sarmatian Cavalry on Trajan's Column" that Sarmatian horses were not mere steppe ponies but had the tough blood of Ferghana thoroughbreds running in their veins. The Chinese called these horses the "Blood Sweating Horses of Ferghana." apparently because parasites gorge on the horses blood to such an extent that it appears as if the horse is sweating blood. Legend has it that they were descended from the horses left behind by Alexander the Great. They were noted for their speed and endurance. Also one other query I have is how would a fully armoured Roxolani heavy cavalryman mount his horse? Not my quotes but Ann Hyland's.

Hello all,

Prior to Emperor Wu-di's importation of the "blood-sweating horses" from the Yue-chi in Ferghana, the emperor acquired a breed from the Wusun, which he called "Heavenly Horses." It's exceedingly hard to link these two breeds to Alexander. However, we still have a rather Victorian view-- "These stupid barbarians [who rode and bred horses for 2,000 years before Alexander was born] could NOT have possibly developed a superior horse that the emperor of China drooled over."

I gag at this sort of Graeco-philic scholarship. :-x

The horses found in Altai kurgans are as large and well-built as the Akal-takae... which is believed to have descended from them. They are 2 centuries older than Alexander's incursions upon the Saka. Coincidentally (or not), Alexander's father (Phillip) imported horses from the Crimea to improve his stock. :whistle:

[Vindex]

That's interesting, Alan, but one query I have. I am assuming the Akal-takae is the same as the modern Akhal Teke?

If so I would not necessarily call that a well built horse, rather good conformation and built for speed and endurance along the lines of the later Arabs. (NOT modern arabs...)

[Michael Kerr]

Hi, just on what Anne Hyland says about Ferghana horses being descended from horses from Alexander The Great.(not me). Pita Kelekna in her book "The Horse in Human History"mentions that after he defeated Darius, Alexander badly needed remounts and replaced a lot of his cavalry horses with Nisaean breed as now he had access to them, so could there be possibility of these playing part in breeding mix as he headed further east. Could there also be a chance that as well he would have acquired various eastern stock as tribute from various satraps on his march east? Horses from Sogdiana and Bactria and not necessarily European or Thessalonian horses. Probably more to do with location and climate of Ferghana Valley with higher quality lucernes, like Alfalfa and like the article in CentralAsia online says about "Akhal-Teke" horses that they were given special foods, cooler temperatures, good grazing and access to water, and selective breeding producing a larger horse. I think the reputation of Ferghana horses preceded the arrival of Greek settlers after Alexander. But to "Western writers" it must have been the introduction of European horses which made this area famous for its horses and not the fact that they were already famous. With the "wear and tear" of a long campaign in the east, with countless battles etc. I don't think he would have had many of his original horses by then. Interesting article in "Central Asia Online" regarding Akhal-Teke breed and "heavenly horses".

http://centralasiaonline.com/en_GB/artic...feature-02
Regards
Michael Kerr

[koechlyruestow]

Alanus, Michael,

Could you tell me more about those modern writers associating the Central Asian horses with the coming of Alexander? Who are they, could you refer me to some book or article?

[Michael Kerr]

Eduard wrote:

Could you tell me more about those modern writers associating the Central Asian horses with the coming of Alexander? Who are they, could you refer me to some book or article?

Hi Eduard, I started this thread a few months ago because I read a book called "The Endurance Horse" by Anne Hyland. At the beginning of the book she covered the history of endurance racing and she mentioned that the Roxolani had bigger horses because they carried more armour than Iazyges and claimed they were descended from the famous "Blood Sweating Horses" of Ferghana Valley and added that these horses were probably descended from horses left behind by Alexander The Great along with some Greek veteran settlers.
Just as a funny aside I noticed that on another thread on this site about Roman baggage trains about mules. In the same book she tells of all the champion endurance racers around the world and in the Australian section she mentions that the number 1 ranked Australian endurance horse in 1986 was a bay part Arabian molly mule at 14 hands high called Juanita which I found amusing.

Regards
Michael Kerr

[koechlyruestow]

Oh dear, I have to read that. I always thought so highly of Hyland.

We all now and then say something stupid, and even sensible authors sometimes write down something stupid, but in the latter case it is in black and white for everyone to see, so it is much more embarassing.

[Michael Kerr]

Hi, again on the akhal teke horses. Apparantly the Soviets nearly wiped out the breed until an akhal teke won in 1960 Rome olympics in Dressage for Soviet Union. But the unusual thing about them which I am sure Steppe peoples would have noted is the bright sheen that came off their unusual coats. (It makes you wonder if this is why they were called "Heavenly Horses"). I shall post pic below of one


[attachment=7005]akhal2.jpg[/attachment]

Regards
Michael Kerr

[koechlyruestow]

Is this horse called the Turkoman horse?

[Michael Kerr]

I am no expert with horses, but I think Akhal tekes are descended from Turkoman horses. It is claimed that Alexander the Great's horse "Bucephalus was descended from a Akhal Teke which if true would back up what Alanus said about Philip importing horses from the steppes. Apparently Philip imported 20000 "Scythian" mares to Macedon" to improve bloodlines.
http://www.pothos.org/content/index.php?page=bucephalus
Regards
Michael Kerr

[Vindex]

Akhal Tekes are one of the breeds associated with the original Turkoman horse. It seems the light riding horse was "divorced" from the light draft horse (and smaller, pony sized) animal callled a Yomud (various spellings)

It is reputed that the horse referred to as the Baylery Turk, one of the breeds used to establish the modern thoroughbred, was the Turkoman in the original form giving speed but depth of bone to the modern breed.

It is still a hot debate as to which of the rounding TB breeds gave the animal the early maturity which sees flat race TBs on the track ridden and raced as 2 year olds, something which is not usual in the horse world.

[Alanus]

Hi, all

I simply wanted to iterate that selective horse breeding started on the steppe, pre Alexander, pre Phillip, and pre Akhal Teke. I became leary of Hyland a few years back when she concluded that a giant neolithic net was used to capture bunnys. She failed to realize that the effort in creating a huge net to capture rabbits would be futile. It's called "rabbit starvation," due to eating flesh with no fat and little protien. However, the net was probably handy for catching high-protein fish which lived in the lake near where the net remains were found. :whistle:

[Michael Kerr]

Hi Alanus, just sticking with the Ferghana horse for a little longer. I take your point about Altai stock probably being ancestor to later Steppe breeds. But it seems either through misreading of Chinese sources or ignorance that authors of articles in horse publications and historical publications or articles etc seem to lump them both together. "Heavenly Horses Of Ferghana". Even the latest issue of Ancient Warfare magazine contains an article about "The Battle Of Uzgen" between the Bactrian_Greeks of Ferghana and the Han Chinese covering the Han's first campaign "which failed" to obtain the "Blood Sweating Horses" by force. The writer of article was J. Albert Morales But the article was called "The War Of The Heavenly Horses". Is this a mistake that a lot of historians make lumping 2 famous lines of horses "Heavenly Horses from Ili Valley and "Blood Sweating Horses" of Ferghana Valley. Not just historians but novelists. I even have a novel by Gillian Bradshaw called "Heavenly Horses" and it is set in Ferghana. Pita Kelekna in book "The Horse In Human History" mentions that Chinese diplomat Zhang Qian was captured by Wusun while seeking allies against Xiongnu but still arranged "Chinese brides for horses" deal with Wusun and while on his return journey to Han court he passed through Ferghana Valley and noted that "Blood Sweating Horses" of Ferghana were even more impressive than "Heavenly Horses" of Ili Valley which indicates they were two different types of horses.
Just a note on Han diplomat Zhang Qian. Was he Sima Qian's relative?
Finally on "Heavenly Horses" was this a term coined by Chinese or is this what Wusun called their horses. Pita Kelekna mentions a bit later on that Han emperor Wudi may have had an ulterior motive other than military for acquiring these horses. Apparantly he was obsessed with his own immortality and

associated the "Heavenly Horses" with the mythical dragon, emblem of Imperial China and as emperor and "Son Of Heaven" he expected to be transported by a pair of these miraculous steeds to the heavenly home of the Immortals in the western Kunlun Mountains.

There is a hymn written in his honour and I shall repeat the first 4 lines. Confusing to me as it speaks of Heavenly Horse but it has red sweat. Maybe Ferghana breed was bigger but maybe confusion was caused by Han themselves as they must have spent a fair bit in goods as well as brides for Ili Valley horses and to find even more impressive horses in Ferghana Valley would be embarrassing but they did get their alliance with Wusun against Xiongnu.

The Heavenly Horse comes down,
A present from the Grand Unity,
Bedewed with red sweat,
That foams in an ochre stream

Regards
Michael Kerr