Quote:Nobody's mentioned the Vergilius Romanus yet? For shame....
Ehm - I think Theodosius/Jaime did actually (and the OP, sort of...) ;-)
Quote:Are representations that reliable?
Not reliable exactly. Very little of the armour shown in Roman art (particularly the later stuff) corresponds to archaeological finds in any unproblematic way. This has led a lot of people to rather dismiss pictorial representations as 'artistic license', 'classicizing idealism', ignorant error or just plain fantasy. There could be elements of all that involved, but I tend to think that these pictures and sculptures are more representative than they're often given credit for.
In the case of the TC helmets and armour, we can tell what they're aiming at, at least, although some of the details appear wrong or obscure. Those rings on the helmets, though, are not just an artistic flourish - they're clearly meant to represent something - we just don't know what! (yet)
Medicus matt post=330253 Wrote:Nobody's mentioned the Vergilius Romanus yet? For shame....
Ehm - I think Theodosius/Jaime did actually (and the OP, sort of...) ;-)
Apologies to Theodosius, although he didn't name it.
I assumed that the OP was talking about the VV, not the VR, given that's what he posted an image from.
Re your comment about the mail hoods in the VV, why the scepticism? They look the same as ones depicted at Dura.
I have that depiction at Dura Europus actually saved on my computer I think. I actually think Mail hoods are practical, particularly in the east, as the 6th Byzzies century began using mail coifs.
Quote:about the mail hoods in the VV, why the scepticism? They look the same as ones depicted at Dura.
They do! I'm a bit sceptical because they appear nowhere else in Roman art or sculpture (as far as I know). The figures on the Dura frescoes have quite unusual-looking shields, and are quite different to the other soldiers depicted. This might mean that they're intended to be 'foreign' or otherwise non-Roman (Persians, maybe?) - the hood might be visual shorthand for this. It would depend on the context though - I don't know enough about the particular scenes depicted at Dura or in the VV to guess who these soldiers are intended to represent...
Actually, somebody recently posted some pictures here of what appears to be a scale or mail hood used as gladiatorial armour, which caused me to moderate my opinion a bit. I'm keeping an open mind about it, and would love to see further evidence, but for now I don't think there's enough to go on really.
Quote:Actually, somebody recently posted some pictures here of what appears to be a scale or mail hood used as gladiatorial armour, which caused me to moderate my opinion a bit. I'm keeping an open mind about it, and would love to see further evidence, but for now I don't think there's enough to go on really.
I wouldn't mind seeing that please, if you are able of course?
Not sure now though - it could be a hood, or a padded cap, or one of those strange bucket-shaped headgear things worn by later Provocators - like this:
The predecessor of the coif, helmets constructed from scales, lamellae or discs, had been in use in Asia since armour first appeared, so there is nothing unusual about hooded soldiers appearing in Dura Europos. The representations of their shields suggests cane stuck through leather, also a very ancient Asian tradition, but their oval or six-sided shape is not at all unusual in an eastern Roman context.
![[Image: 4943236560_1186b2209e_z.jpg]](http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4119/4943236560_1186b2209e_z.jpg)
:grin: :lol:
