09-28-2016, 10:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2016, 11:28 PM by Paullus Scipio.)
So you have had this information since 2011, and not let us all know? Naughty Giannis! What other gems of knowledge have you uncovered, and not published ? 
To put things in perspective, over many years something like 1,000 graves have been excavated. Most have no grave goods at all. Of the small number that do, only a few have 'warrior panoplies' with the peculiar gold fittings, which were attached for funereal purposes. There are dozens of helmets, nearly all of 'Illyrian' type, which some now call 'Macedonian' because so many turn up in Macedon. This simple type of helmet evolved from the 'Kegel' type in the Peloponnese in the 8 C, and spread very widely. It was particularly popular in the Balkans, judging by finds, especially Macedon, where some of the many varieties of 'Illyrians' were invented. About 50 were found at Archontiko, but many were purloined by grave robbers, going back to antiquity.
One myth should be 'put to bed' regarding 'Illyrian' helmets. One often sees that the two characteristic ridges are described as "crest supports". This is untrue, for they are too widely spread apart, and extant examples with traces of crest fittings show that the crest was much narrower than the gap. ( a hook at the front and loop at the back). The original 'Illyrians' were made in two halves and the ridges were to protect the seam of the join, a weak point. Later the helmet was made in one piece, like 'Corinthians', but the traditional ridges were retained, and a mock seam was often inscribed!
It is interesting that the 6 C graves may be Paeonian rather than Macedonian. Paeonian coins ( which appeared from Philip II of Macedon's time) often show warriors with Greek-type helmets, but rarely body armour, ( even Kings, although Tube-and-yoke corselets are occasionally depicted) and also show them equipped with 'bucklers' ( see attached).
I believe only some six 'argive' aspides/shields have been found at Archontiko in total.
Bryan wrote:
"How many linen, cloth, or leather linothorax style cuirasses have survived, period? "
'Hundreds' of leather, or leather based Tube-and-Yoke corselets survive over a very wide area. The type was known from Gaul to the far East. Many excavated examples, or fragmentary remains come from the Balkans, Thrace and Scythia, many of obviously Greek manufacture and exported.
I have explained many times why there are no examples from central and southern Greece due to archaeological conditions and different burial customs.
There are however NO remains of linen corselets found, although linen corselets existed in Asia minor, Etruria and Lusitania according to our literary sources.........
To put things in perspective, over many years something like 1,000 graves have been excavated. Most have no grave goods at all. Of the small number that do, only a few have 'warrior panoplies' with the peculiar gold fittings, which were attached for funereal purposes. There are dozens of helmets, nearly all of 'Illyrian' type, which some now call 'Macedonian' because so many turn up in Macedon. This simple type of helmet evolved from the 'Kegel' type in the Peloponnese in the 8 C, and spread very widely. It was particularly popular in the Balkans, judging by finds, especially Macedon, where some of the many varieties of 'Illyrians' were invented. About 50 were found at Archontiko, but many were purloined by grave robbers, going back to antiquity.
One myth should be 'put to bed' regarding 'Illyrian' helmets. One often sees that the two characteristic ridges are described as "crest supports". This is untrue, for they are too widely spread apart, and extant examples with traces of crest fittings show that the crest was much narrower than the gap. ( a hook at the front and loop at the back). The original 'Illyrians' were made in two halves and the ridges were to protect the seam of the join, a weak point. Later the helmet was made in one piece, like 'Corinthians', but the traditional ridges were retained, and a mock seam was often inscribed!
It is interesting that the 6 C graves may be Paeonian rather than Macedonian. Paeonian coins ( which appeared from Philip II of Macedon's time) often show warriors with Greek-type helmets, but rarely body armour, ( even Kings, although Tube-and-yoke corselets are occasionally depicted) and also show them equipped with 'bucklers' ( see attached).
I believe only some six 'argive' aspides/shields have been found at Archontiko in total.
Bryan wrote:
"How many linen, cloth, or leather linothorax style cuirasses have survived, period? "
'Hundreds' of leather, or leather based Tube-and-Yoke corselets survive over a very wide area. The type was known from Gaul to the far East. Many excavated examples, or fragmentary remains come from the Balkans, Thrace and Scythia, many of obviously Greek manufacture and exported.
I have explained many times why there are no examples from central and southern Greece due to archaeological conditions and different burial customs.
There are however NO remains of linen corselets found, although linen corselets existed in Asia minor, Etruria and Lusitania according to our literary sources.........
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
