Destructions in the Syrian Civil War

[Eleatic Guest]

Compare the aerial images of Apameia in 2013 with 2011.

[Creon01]

Breaks my heart

[Vexillation]

Extremely sad. For every lost artifact the potential of new knowledge is lost, probably forever.

[Timianus]

A reminder that wars have consequences on the physical environment and makeup of a city. All too often people recount historical battles as if it is simply a matter of pieces moving on a chess board.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

So sad.

[Robert]

These destructions of the site were not a cause of any military action (although looking at it the pictures of shell torn WWI landscape comes to mind, so vastis the devastation), but the cause of the breakdown of civilisation and the opening of the road to clandistine diggers looting the site. It is the civilian trade of artifacts to private collectors that fuels it, those willing to buy pieces without provenance. It happens here, but also in a LOT of countries where there is no war going on, but just a lack of care or supervision by the present day authorities. In a country like Marokko, all pre-Islamic sites are as much a free for all as now in Syria. The locals are just trying to scrape a living, it is the middlemen and dealers that make the most.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Yeah the ridge the Battle of Chalons may have taken place on was bombarded and shelled in WWI.

But Robert is right. Morocco and pretty much everything outside Europe that is Roman isn't respected. In Turkey they don't care about the Roman monuments, only the Ottoman ones that succeeded them.

[M. Demetrius]

Not just Turkey, Evan. Some nations' governments are pressing the notion that anything pre-7th Century AD sites have no value, and should be destroyed or retasked as modern functions like museums, mosques, or whatever else. Something about idolatry-removal. Makes no sense to me.

In any kind of war, however, the safety and preservation of some historical relic always is much lower than the safety and preservation of the troops in the field, and there's just not much chance of changing that.

[Condottiero Magno]

Yeah the ridge the Battle of Chalons may have taken place on was bombarded and shelled in WWI.

But Robert is right. Morocco and pretty much everything outside Europe that is Roman isn't respected. In Turkey they don't care about the Roman monuments, only the Ottoman ones that succeeded them.

They don't really care for Ottoman ones too, unless there's tourist $$$. Not too long ago, one could find plenty of two story traditional buildings in Istanbul, some from the Ottoman era, but most have been torn down to make way for apartments in an ever expanding city.

The Belgrade forest north of Istanbul, a source of the city's water since ancient times, an hunting park for Byzantine and Ottoman nobles and now a nature preserve will now have an highway connecting a new bridge, despite most not wanting it, aside from dogs of the AKP. Next is to cut a shipping canal west of Istanbul, because it was an idea in the Ottoman era and Erdogan is nothing more than an unimaginative fundamentalist tool.

[Condottiero Magno]

Not just Turkey, Evan. Some nations' governments are pressing the notion that anything pre-7th Century AD sites have no value, and should be destroyed or retasked as modern functions like museums, mosques, or whatever else. Something about idolatry-removal. Makes no sense to me.

In any kind of war, however, the safety and preservation of some historical relic always is much lower than the safety and preservation of the troops in the field, and there's just not much chance of changing that.

The idolatry removal is a product of those areas controlled by Wahhabists and not something done by all Muslims, most displaying the same apathetic or lukewarm attitude to antiquities as any Southern European.

[M. Demetrius]

You must know better than I, Condottiero Magno, so the Afghan Taliban--are they Wahhabists?

[Condottiero Magno]

You must know better than I, Condottiero Magno, so the Afghan Taliban--are they Wahhabists?

The Afghan Taliban are an indigenous movement, originally from Pakistan, that follow a doctrine derived from Hanbalism of the 9th Century AD, a conservative ideology too extreme for the Abbasid Caliphate. Hanbalism branched out into several movements of which Salafism and the related Wahhabism is associated with Saudi Arabia and Deobandism in India and Pakistan. Aside from a few possible differences, beyond me, as I'm not a theological scholar, nor do I know Arabic, the branches are similar enough in ideology that they'll more than likely cooperate, barring local situations and antagonism between leaders.

While the Saudis fund Salafi religious schools across the world, the Saudi Commission of Tourism and Antiquities and the royal family has no issue funding an exhibit of pre-Islamic Arabian finds overseas.

[tiberius aemilius naso]

[quote="M. Demetrius" post=347262] most displaying the same apathetic or lukewarm attitude to antiquities as any Southern European.

A rough generalization. A Southern European here.

[tiberius aemilius naso]

most displaying the same apathetic or lukewarm attitude to antiquities as any Southern European.

A rough generalization. Because "Northern Europeans" are always so civilized. Not feeding the antiquities black market at all... A "Southern European" here.

[Robert Vermaat]

Wahhabism is roughly 'exported saudi Islam', and it tend to be a strict form of Sunni islam. It pays for a lot of mosques in Europe.

But let's not make this sorry business in Syria about islam. If you're hungry, destitute and without a house. You want to do anything to feed your family, and digging for valuables in ancient ruins is just one of them. When looting occurs, Islamic sites are as much hurt as pre-Islamic sites. It's not the time to look ahead and notice you're destroying your own past AND future, especially not when winter is coming, many of your relatives are either dead or missing, and you have no money to flee abroad.

Apart from lamenting the loss of history, I am first of all feeling deeply sorry for the population. War is hell. And it's now too late to do anything about it but pick up the pieces afterwards.