Login

05-28-2004, 06:40 AM

On one of your sites there is a small vid which shows a bit of combat at a show where Auxiliaries are pitted against Legionaries. A Legionary catches the last man on the right and deftly moves in to hamstring him while he is engaed at his front. 
 
I wonder where you guys get most of your hits when simulating combat ? 
 
Conal

06-01-2004, 06:01 AM

Ave Conal, 
 
Are you talking on a specific Legion site? Check out Legio IX Hispana. They do a lot of combat and combat gear testing. They like to make something, then test that something to death- I think if anyone knows, they do. 
Here's their site: 
www.legio-ix-hispana.org/index.html 
Go to "articles" at the bottom of the menu, there's a great one about how to torture a segmentata. Both Hibernicus and Scythius are very helpful. Ask them, and they will answer. 
 
Valete, Quintus Florentius Agrippa 
LEGVIVICPF 
www.florentius.com

scythius · 06-01-2004, 12:18 PM

I *think* that the video you're looking for was from the big event in Italy last year (your description sounds familiar). 
I'll see if ican find it in my bookmarks, and we'll see if some of our European friends can point it out. 
 
 
Scythius 
LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB 
 
- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS -

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 06-01-2004, 01:23 PM

If you refer to Albano 2002 and Ostia 2003, I "fought" all the "battles" (if I remind about two dozen of full-contact, 60 vs.60, clashes in total). Ostia was better and I faced re-enactors from France, Italy and Czech Republic with good combat training. As LEG. XXX U.T.V. soldier I was hit jus three times, once at my neck inside the seg and once at my hamstring (hits on the face were not allowed), once at my right arm because I was too slow in stabbing my opponents. 
 
Valete, 
Titus

Flavius · 06-01-2004, 02:05 PM

Saluete omnes, 
well I was there too. I was the optio of the Legio XXX leading the auxiliaries (the valorous Cohors I Brittonum) and my worry was only to avoid to damage the crest (it's delicate, what the heck!). 
In spite of recommendations, when there are so many fighters the blows rain everywhere, it's sure. 
It was funny, though! 
Valete. --------- 
Fecisti patriam diversis gentibus unam; 
profuit iniustis te dominante capi; 
dumque offers victis proprii consortia iuris, 
Urbem fecisti, quod prius orbis erat. 
(Rutilius Namatianus - De Reditu Suo, I, 63-66)

Gashford · 06-03-2004, 12:13 PM

In our gladiatorial fighting most blows land in a few areas. 
 
The shoulder. 
We think that a lot of attacks ended up going for the subclavian artery hidden in the clavical/neck area. 
 
The tricep. 
After all if the tricep is wounded his shield drops revealing the shouler for the above hit. 
 
The back. 
Again the shield drops leaving the subclavian ready for a strike. 
 
The armpit/ribs. 
These can make a nasty mess, unlikely to get the heart, but the nerves, tendons and blood vessels in the armpit leave a formidable problem. 
 
The hamstring. 
Makes meaningful combative movement almost impossible. 
 
Armour seems to bare this out, at least for the sibclavian. Neck guards make this strike very difficult indeed, leaving the blow to fall more into the shoulder/chest or back. 
 
I would be more than interested to hear from anyone that is tryingto build a systematic fighting doctrine that involves drills and training researched through iconography. As I think that this can reveal a lot of what the Romans considered the important places to strike at by a trained soldier. 
 
All the best Graham Ashford
<hr />
[url=http://www.ludus.org.uk" target="_new]Ludus Gladiatorius[/url] 
[url=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bromancombatsports" target="_new]Roman Combat Sports Forum[/url] 
[url=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk" target="_new]Roman Army Talk Forum[/url] 
[url=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk" target="_new]Roman Civilian Talk Forum[/url]

06-03-2004, 12:52 PM

Graham 
 
Have you seen Troy ? 
 
Achillies first scrap involves a stab just behind the left shoulder which seemed to go over the shoulder blade & down into the heart. This would mean the angle of entry coming back on yourself, how easy would it be to make such a hit. 
 
BTW Achillies does it by jumping up the guys body, who was rather tall ! Incidentaly Brad Pitt hurt his Achillies tendon when landing from the jump 
 
Conal

Gashford · 06-03-2004, 01:40 PM

Conal 
 
It was quite a coincidence actually when I saw the film. Literally the day before we had spent sometime in the group looking at the merits of going for the subclavian. 
 
I am no expert on these things at all, however in the film I think that Achilles misses the subclavian as he is a little over the to end of the shoulder and would have probably struggled getting the blade out of such a deep hit, the beauty with the subclavian is that (as far as I can tell looking at Grays anatomy etc ...) that you do not need to go far in at all. 
 
The CGI blood line left by Achilles hit was across the shoulder not along the length of the shoulder. I would suspect that the latter would give you a better chance of getting in and out than the first. But I suppose that this was just a film and we shouldn't get too wrapped up in the details of what was meant to be a spectacular and swift confrontation to get us into the idea that Achilles was a good fighter. 
 
Again though I stress I am not an expert, I have not tried to actively stab a man to death by doing this and all the simulation in the world with wooden weapons in a training environment do not make me much of an authority ... now if we can find those that have actually made this hit in real life, they would be worth quizzing anyone here? 
 
I hope this is what you are after? Graham Ashford
<hr />
[url=http://www.ludus.org.uk" target="_new]Ludus Gladiatorius[/url] 
[url=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bromancombatsports" target="_new]Roman Combat Sports Forum[/url] 
[url=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk" target="_new]Roman Army Talk Forum[/url] 
[url=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk" target="_new]Roman Civilian Talk Forum[/url]

Los456 · 06-03-2004, 04:34 PM

"Achillies first scrap involves a stab just behind the left shoulder which seemed to go over the shoulder blade & down into the heart. This would mean the angle of entry coming back on yourself, how easy would it be to make such a hit." 
 
Well providing you could leap high enough into the air (with all your armor and weapons after some period of already fighting), without being skewered by the guy you are going against, so that you could lunge down with your short sword from directly above then I would imagine no problem at all. 
 
 
 
Assuming your opponent is your height then it's about a two foot leap vertical plus how ever many feet horizontal to cover the space from your starting position to the opponent say three to four feet. I'd say that was a fantasy move. Looked cool though. 
 
Los

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me