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06-03-2004, 03:12 AM

As I may be the only member of Legio XXX attending this year's roman days, I'll make a point to fill in as best as I can for the rest of the guys. Misha's sounds like a fun place. 
 
I do not know about being "too Flavian", but maille existed during the entire roman period. Both segmentata and hamata coexisted. Besides, if you want to do either a signifier or cornucian impression don't you need to wear maille? 
 
Oh well, time to put my riveting tongs down for the night. I try to get 16 to 32 riveted rings done each night after work. Need to let the callouses on the fingers of my right hand heal.

FlaviusCrispus · 06-03-2004, 03:35 AM

<<Besides, EVERY body else in the US is doing Flavian. 
 
Tell me, is there a secret Award a group wins for being more "Flavian than thou." >> 
 
Um, not everyone. Our basic impression with Leg VI Victrix (California) is Hadrianic-Antonine. We also have individual impressions stretching from the Punic Wars to the 5th Century. 
 
T. Flavius Crispus 
Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis 
California, USA

06-03-2004, 02:45 PM

"I live in a condo, ( With a basement ) but still, 
making maille doesn't get the neighbors all "jerked off" and calling the cops." 
 
Your neigbhours must hate you 
 
If that's your reason for not making a segmentata...power to ya. But it seems to me you've never actually tried one. While you've been a chain mailler for 10 years you seem a bit intimidated by plate armour. You should try it. You'll see it's not that hard or loud at all. Most of the plate cutting can be done where you buy the steel anyway. If you use copper rivets then peening them won't create much of a ruckus either. It also helps if you're doing your armouring at a decent time of the day and not in the a.m. 
 
"Besides, EVERY body else in the US is doing Flavian. 
 
"Tell me, is there a secret Award a group wins for being more "Flavian than thou." 
 
There is also II Trajana Fortis down south and a second Victrix unit in New York state that is not flavian, but Trajanic or Hadrianic as well. Not to mention some of the latter roman groups like a few that congregate at the Lafe, Arkansas event. My legion is also of the Trajanic era. 
 
"Seriously though, some of us are ready to split off and form a semi autonomous Auxilliary unit attached to our Legion. 
 
Not so much the divorce most unit splits go through, this I think, is going to be more like the kids leaving home, but still coming back for Holidays, vacations, meals, and to borrow stuff." 
 
Sounds like someone's not getting along...hehehehehe. 
 
Rcroteau, why is it you think that an auxilliary impression is any easier to get right than a legionarys? How is it cheaper? Legionary tunics are just as "basic", and it has been shown that auxilliaries weren't that much lower in the pay scale as legionarys, thus they were able to buy just as fancy belts and other equipment. Roman Auxilliary helmets are just as expensive to buy as legionary ones, and the shields are the same price too. Even if you make them yourself. 
 
The only significant difference (if any) is the materials used to make a hamata. However, when you take into consideration the sheer amount of time it takes to make a suit of mail, then it balances out I'd say. A lot less labour goes into making a segmentata. 
 
"Sheilds are easy as heck to make and paint and edge. 
Clothing is the same. 
Belts are easier." 
 
Legionary scuta have a glue drying time. They are no less hard to paint than an auxilliary shield. Edging is the same. 
Clothing, as you say is the same...belts are easier? No...they're the same as well. In fact, a Legionary was just as likely to have a simple belt as an auxilliary, and the opposite holds true. 
 
"AnyWay. Maille is Cool because it's not Like Everybody else." 
 
Neuralmancer is correct. All standard bearers and officers above optio but below tribune wore mailel. It is also not known what the ratio of mail to segmentata really was. So how can you say mail is a stand alone armour type, when EVERYBODY else is doing it? Right now my legion actually has more maille than plate, but only because of what types of legionarys/officers we portray. I hope to have this ratio lessened soon... 
 
Hey Neuralmancer, you sure those caluses are from chain maille and not something else? 
 
Magnus/Matt 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix" 
Niagara Falls, Canada

Matthew Amt · 06-03-2004, 03:46 PM

Avete! 
 
Just a few minor points to throw in. Legio XX does Claudian, 43 AD. Obviously it's not a big stretch from there to Flavian, but our usual stated focal point is the Invasion of Britain. We have some guys in lorica segmentata, some in hamata, some who have both. 
 
A lorica hamata shouldn't weigh more than about 20 pounds. Half-solid, half-riveted mail can be a lot thinner and lighter than butted while being even more protective. 
 
Mail in general is VERY resistant to thrusts as well as cuts! There has been a lot of study and talk about this, lately, on places like the Armour Archive and the Sword Forum. It's REALLY good stuff. Of course, it is still very possible to mash the soldier without hurting his mail! So you still need some good stiff padding. That's the big advantage of plate, like the segmentata, it soaks up that nasty impact. 
 
Neuralmancer, you WILL bring that riveted mail to Roman Days, yes? We wanna drool on it! I'll bring the samples I have that were made by Erik D. Schmid. You'll cry. Trust me. 
 
Valete, 
 
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX

06-03-2004, 08:11 PM

Well, if I can come even half way to Erik's work I'll feel good. I've only been doing riveted maille for a few months. I think that my hamata may come in weighing much more than 20 pounds. I'm using 16 gauge wire, perhaps I should be using 18 gauge, but it looks good and it will certainly be protective.

06-03-2004, 11:44 PM

We've seen his ( Neuralmancer's) maille patches at Roman Day North East last month. 
I have just one word for his work. 
 
MINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. 
 
Before you all get going, , 
No he can't make you a riveted hamata 
No he can't make you one for $200 
No he can't make you one in 3 weeks 
 
Actually that's not directed at any body, just some goofy sarcasm. 
 
Seriously though, you would have to climb right up on top of his maille with a magnifying glass in order to play round rivets, square rivets, wedge rivets. 
At this point in the game , if I were in charge, the first "rivet counter" to pop up would see a cross. 
He's doing some great work with very authentic looking maille.

06-04-2004, 12:16 AM

Thanks so much for the complement. My wife wanted me to sell my first suit of hamata. "Make some money from your hobbies for once" she said. 
 
I replied, "No way!" I have too much time and effort invested in this project and besides, I need to see whether I can actually finish it. Seriously though, after I finish the first one, which I suspect will take the better part of two years to complete, I may consider making a second suit of hamata for someone else.

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 06-04-2004, 07:09 AM

Quote:<hr>We also have individual impressions stretching from the Punic Wars to the 5th Century.<hr> 
 
Crispus, why don't you post them in the roman soldiers impressions thread? Especially the republican to augustan impressions are rare to see... 
 
Vale, 
Titus

06-05-2004, 12:29 AM

>>"Make some money from your hobbies for once" she said..."I replied, "No way!" I have too much time and effort invested in this project and besides, I need to see whether I can actually finish it."<< 
 
aaaaaaaah yes...The Creed Of Zee R-Teest! Now, if I had a dime for each time I had to use that quote or the "Not for sale, they're my Babies!" on my art, heck, I sure wouldn't be *starving* fer shure! 
 
*SIGH* 
 
Anywhos, I think I did remember seeing Neural's maille at RDNE, and very nice. I finally got to see Quintus' Roman Nails too. 
 
I too think Lor. Seggie is being used too much, but then again I went with it myself over Maille cause the Seggie looks damn sweet. I still ponder a Republican/Marian-ear kit....But a Repub. Scutum? Ugh! 
But either way, it's up to the individual. I'd like to see more maille myself, but I'm preaching to the mirror. 
Wear whatchya like, if it fits good and is accurate, and you like it. 
 
 
Condo...with a basement?? In MA?! *gasp* Whoa d00d! 
...And you can still afford to eat and do Roman stuff... 
*boggles* 
-ANDY aka "Roman Dude" Svaviter in Modo, Fortiter in Re 
 
www.higgins.org

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